Is there a problem being black and living in Jamaica?

[Lisa20]

In this age is there a problem with being black and living in Jamaica?

This is a question that needs a discussion not arguments so people pleas do not start any arguments.

It is a situation where it would seem that if you are not a "Browning" you are not worth anything. Yet when women bleach you can hear the comments that are being passed by both male and female alike.

It is very upsetting to know that on an Island where the majority of the population is Black that there should be discrimination among us. :icon_frow

I believe that most females who "Bleach" there skin is due to the fact that they really can't take the dicrimination anymore. If we took the time to compliment the blaxk women in the society there would be less bleaching.

The motto of our country is "Out of many One People" one being the most inportant word in the phrase, we should refrain from discriminatinng the Human Race.

[foxybrown]

Good post!!

This is called a salves mentality anything too dark isn't good :( sad sad sad it is. First off have you ever taken a close look at the JAMAICAN beauty pagents? It's usually very fare skinned-could pass for white girls that are winning the title of MISS JAMAICA; They in my opinion do not represent the majority of Jamaicans who are darker skinned. That to me is sending the wrong message, and that is why you get women bleaching out the skin to be seen as beautiful which is SAD :confused:

[Lisa20]

Good post!!

This is called a salves mentality anything too dark isn't good :( sad sad sad it is. First off have you ever taken a close look at the JAMAICAN beauty pagents? It's usually very fare skinned-could pass for white girls that are winning the title of MISS JAMAICA; They in my opinion do not represent the majority of Jamaicans who are darker skinned. That to me is sending the wrong message, and that is why you get women bleaching out the skin to be seen as beautiful which is SAD :confused:


I agree with you, but i think that the main reason why women bleach is because of the growing increase in jamaican men prefering browning.

When a guy can take home a Brown, indian, chiney or some one who i mixed with white to mama and she accepts her, however, if he ever tries to take a black girl home its like opening up pandora box even if she is loaded(money) This remind me of the play that i did in high school called "Old Story Time" where the son took home a black woman that his mother didnot approve of and she went as far as obeah to try an get rid of the woman c\because of the colour of her skin.

"Look not upon me, because I am black,
because the sun hath looked upon me:
my mother's children were angry with me;
they made me the keeper of the vineyards;
but mine own vineyard have I not kept. "

The colour of the skin has a lot to do with Black Women's position in society.
Blak women should be proud of there colour cause theirs is a unique one. The only skin tone where a small amount of persons have developed skin cancer.
The bible says: Iam black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem,
as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.

I believe that when our men start to respect themselves as Proud Black men, they will surely respect our Strong Black women.

This is my opinion. :eusa_thin

[nuhsenutten]

me personally i dont descriminate........its ur personality that counts casue no matter what ur color if ur personality not good me and u not gonna make it as friends...........................some ppl in jamaica have that mentality not all......keep that in mind

[Lisa20]

me personally i dont descriminate........its ur personality that counts casue no matter what ur color if ur personality not good me and u not gonna make it as friends...........................some ppl in jamaica have that mentality not all......keep that in mind


If you say so...........well the majority of u guys do discriminate against women. This has been going on for years from as early as in the bible days. If we try to make the changes now we can look forward to new generation of young men that we can be proud of.

[Lisa20]

So why did you discriminate???? Was it because your parents and siblings made the remarks or was it because of the popularity status it provided you with?

Right now i would like some one to please answer the question. Is there a problem with being Black and living in a country where the majority of the population is Black.

Or, do we as a people, intend to let the racial prejudice divide us like it in did in trinidad?

I surely hope that wont happen.

[Gillion]

Lisa20 describe the kind of man you like ?

[Gillion]

I wrote this for another site so bear with me

I notice on dese here forums dat di bleachin problem leave yard and gone abroad... so let me just give a little perspective on dis wicked ting.

Now Dis whole bleaching thing is comming from colonial days especially after slavery. It was not uncommon for a White man especially wealthy merchants and sailors to take a "BROWN/Light" skin wife. The famous Mary Secole is a product of such a union. She wouldn't have gotten as far as she did in victorian era england if she wans't mulato.

Thus other Jamaican females instinctively, from a historical perspective, began to promote the concept of lightening the skin tone of their daughters so that they will "have a better chance" in life ESPECIALLY at getting married to a "nice white or brown man".

At the same time, these Mothers instinctively told their sons to "step up" and only marry a light skin woman so that his children will "come out nice and brown with pretty hair and skin".

A vicious circle was born.

So what we had was, men with a predisposition to "brownins" and women with a desire to be brown so as to compete for BETTER financial oppoertunities.

I say finanacial, because only the mulato boys and girls had the money to go to school, live fine lives and had the better clothes. These mulato kids were the offspring of White Black Unions or White Brown Unions... because White men had a thing for black women in JA.

However this whole brown skin thing died down for a while until... Buju Banton... REALLY SCREWED THE POOCH with his song "Mi love mi Brownin"

He had to quickly make a song about "Love mi Black Woman" It didn't take... the damage was done. Girls realised that popularity was ensured for the BROWN girls that went to better schools and universities. Had good jobs and had their pick of the littler when it comes to men.

Even "Carlene the Dance Hall Queen" aggravated the problem because her sister.. "Pinky" a DARKER skin girl was not as popular as her. This overweight brown girl was able to make a living wearing dance hall clothes and dancing at "big parties" all because of her skin. Thats all these young girls saw.

So in the end, we get a whole dimension of problem that has its roots in ECONOMICS and SELF HATE.

If you are the daughter or a middle class or wealthy family, chances are you won't have to be in the sun to work and help your mother sell yam at the market. Thusly, your skin wont be "darkened".

Then there are other aspects such as you are more likely to know your Father. Chances are you will get the oppertunity to go to school and not the ****ty schools either... a TRADITIONAL school like IMMACULATE.

Chances are, you won't have a hard life in general and so you wont show the stresses of life on your face (like knife cuts), your voice will be softer, your walk will be nicer, your hair will be better looked after and will grow long instead of breaking as a result of stress.

Chances are, if you look more "DAINTY" and thats the key word here and more FEMININ you will be able to get a "better man" as opposed to the "thugs" you grew up with.

So in being covetious, these girls have created a self hate pattern and perpetuate it in their friends and kids... because they really do not see the world as being fair and even.


--gillion

[Gillion]

You know... "kinky" hair as some would call it. Is a result of adaptation to a HOT arid environment. A typically AFRICAN environment. Many African women do the smart thing and blad their heads or simply cut the hair low. But because we in the west are eurofied, we can't do that, nor do we wish to. Afterall most women take pride in the length of their hair.

Especially women of African ancestry.

Why ? because its alot harder to work on than for other Ethnicities.... and because we have more styles available to us that will look good and hold.

I was once asked why GOD gave everyone else straight hair and black women got the kinky hair.

My answer... because GOD knows whats best for you !

Besides... your hair is multi talented.... it can do MORE things than for other races... she doan see it my way yet.

Anyway, my point is that the processing of hair (frying) is necessary to cope with large wooly hair growth which is something that is very Eurocentric.

Did you know Lots of hair ensures a WARM SKULL... something necessary in places that have COLD COLD WINTERS ? Did you also know that most of the body heat you loose is from the top of your head... whoda thunk !!

I can't tell how many times I hear my female friends complain about them long hair (natural or braid extensions ) making their head HOT ... I just laugh.

--gillion

[Gillion]

I know alot o the posts don't fit it was written for another forum... but it should be useful here

[Lisa20]

Lisa20 describe the kind of man you like ?


It doesn't matter his colour as long as he is kind, caring, loving, dependable, honest and respectful

[Bahama Mama]

Lisa to quote James Brown, "Stand tall. I am black and I am proud".

A college friend of mine who is of a very dark complexion, once told me that her grandmother told her not to bring home any dark skinned man, and you know she never had a dark skinned boyfriend to my recollection. Such foolishness to instill in kids, which is to essentially hate yourself. Black pride begins at home, and many people screw this foolishness into their kids heads from an early age, so unfortunately they grow up with a thwarted mentality of themselves.


Of course the media dont help the situation. How often do you see dark skinned women in the forefront, like in modelling, music videos, magazine covers. Be proud of who you are, and wear your dark skin, your kinky hair, swing your full hips, and pucker up your full lips with pride.

Motto for the day: Black is beautiful, and so is every other color under the sun!!!!

[BlackCryptoKnight]

well the majority of u guys do discriminate against women.

The majority of Jamaican population is black. That fact alone indicates that black women in Jamaica aren't having as hard a time having relationships as you may feel.

Women discriminate against men big time. They discriminate against men with certain financial status, as well as physical attributes including colour. When it comes to having an intimate relationship with someone, it can be argued that a person has a right to select a person for any qualities they chose. If they prefer a dark person, then so be it. If they prefer a light skinned person, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with having a personal preference. Everybody has a personal preference. That's different from victimizing or oppressing someone for their differences.

[Gwadinka]

I have just read all your posts and I think that I would have liked to express clearlymy opinion but I'm missing the words and talent. So I will turn to one of my mentors, Bob Marley :eusa_whis
'Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our mind
So won't you help to sing... :icon_redf I ll stop it there cuz it's gonna rain

[Lisa20]

The majority of Jamaican population is black. That fact alone indicates that black women in Jamaica aren't having as hard a time having relationships as you may feel.
BCK i will not agree with you because of one reason.

Black men prefer to date brown women and brown men prefer to date brown women!!
So who does that leave the Black women to date?

[Lisa20]

I have just read all your posts and I think that I would have liked to express clearlymy opinion but I'm missing the words and talent. So I will turn to one of my mentors, Bob Marley :eusa_whis
'Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our mind
So won't you help to sing... :icon_redf I ll stop it there cuz it's gonna rain

i agree but how do we emancipate ourselves from the slavery when we ourself inflict it?

[Bahama Mama]

i agree but how do we emancipate ourselves from the slavery when we ourself inflict it?


It begins with every individual, like yourself who will vow not to discriminate against anyone becasue of their race or color. Truth is, we have very little power over the actions of others, but we are all powerful when it comes to how each one of us as individuals treat others. Our own actions are the only catalyst for change.

[Bahama Mama]

The majority of Jamaican population is black. That fact alone indicates that black women in Jamaica aren't having as hard a time having relationships as you may feel.
BCK i will not agree with you because of one reason.

Black men prefer to date brown women and brown men prefer to date brown women!!
So who does that leave the Black women to date?


I have seen many loving relationships that invloved black men and black women. They are out there, though it may seem nil. But at the end of the day, no one can judge someone on their preference to date a certain type of individual. But a personal preference should not be seen as discrimination in every case. BUt a preference which we all have a right to express as humans.

[Lisa20]

I agree with you. To be honest thats the best answwer so far

[BlackCryptoKnight]

The majority of Jamaican population is black. That fact alone indicates that black women in Jamaica aren't having as hard a time having relationships as you may feel.
BCK i will not agree with you because of one reason.

Black men prefer to date brown women and brown men prefer to date brown women!!
So who does that leave the Black women to date?

Do the math. If everybody is dating brown people, and black women don't have anybody, then why is the majority of the population still black? :eusa_thin

You really aren't in a position to say with authority and certainty that black men prefer to date brown women. You'd be right if you said some black men prefer to date brown women, but you can't prove that all do. That's like someone saying that all women are materialistic gold-diggers. That would be a statement which is likely to be incorrect and cannot be proven or backed up with facts.

[Lisa20]

Do the math. If everybody is dating brown people, and black women don't have anybody, then why is the majority of the population still black? :eusa_thin

You really aren't in a position to say with authority and certainty that black men prefer to date brown women. You'd be right if you said some black men prefer to date brown women, but you can't prove that all do. That's like someone saying that all women are materialistic gold-diggers. That would be a statement which is likely to be incorrect and cannot be proven or backed up with facts.

The majority of the population is not black. The majority is bleaching in a hope gettiing our black men attention. The fact of the matter is that the deejays are singing about how much them, want browning, and humans on a whole tend to take direction from them even though that that is not the right thing to do.

The facts are there. I did a survey on about 12 of my male friends 5 being black and the remainding 7 brown. There was a lot of disagreement on the subject, but they all agreed on one thing that they would prefer to date a Brown woman than dating a black one. One the black guys went as far as saying that if there were only two person left on this earth (him and a black woman) he would have to be definately desperate to actually call that woman his girl. (Right now his not really my close friend because of that statement). This just goes to show that the mentanlity that the young men nowadays are adapting to, are one of slavery days. as was said until we emancipate ourselves that type of slavery we will forever be domed.

I really can't understand why is it so hard for us to honestly accept the fact that this is happening. :icon_mrgr

[BlackCryptoKnight]

The majority of the population is not black. The majority is bleaching in a hope gettiing our black men attention.

You're kidding me right? The majority of the population is bleaching in a hope to getting black men? :confused:



The fact of the matter is that the deejays are singing about how much them, want browning, and humans on a whole tend to take direction from them even though that that is not the right thing to do.

:eusa_wall



The facts are there. I did a survey on about 12 of my male friends 5 being black and the remainding 7 brown. There was a lot of disagreement on the subject, but they all agreed on one thing that they would prefer to date a Brown woman than dating a black one. One the black guys went as far as saying that if there were only two person left on this earth (him and a black woman) he would have to be definately desperate to actually call that woman his girl. (Right now his not really my close friend because of that statement). This just goes to show that the mentanlity that the young men nowadays are adapting to, are one of slavery days. as was said until we emancipate ourselves that type of slavery we will forever be domed.

:eusa_wall



I really can't understand why is it so hard for us to honestly accept the fact that this is happening. :icon_mrgr

Dat a di least...

[Gillion]

Lisa 20... answer the question: Describe the kind of man that you like. Describe his physical features that will most likely

CATCH YOUR EYE IMMEDIATELY

That which will turn your head when he passess you on the road.

Do not try to speed ahead and try to read my mind.
Just please answer the question.

[Gillion]

Lisa20 You probably should do two things to bring substance and validity to your future arguments in this thread.

(1) In any form of survey, however informal and "non academic", you should discern amongst those in your survey, who is exhbiting pure discrimination or exhbiting a mere prefference.

DISCRIMINATION by itself tends to carry a negative connotation when applied to class, creed and colour. Ergo we could keep the negative connotation for the purpose of this thread.

However

PREFERENCE which is often purely based on simple, basic, individual human tastes and needs, is often over-looked when dealing with male female issue. As such we could use prefference to define a POSITVE connotation within this thread

You must discern who is displaying prefferential or discriminative behaviour in your survey which brings to mind ...

(2) Always increase your sample size. You cannot do a survey on 5 - 12 people and submit it as evidence to back up your initial premise, since 5 data elements will not show what is called a distribution curve.

Not only is the sample data size horrendoulsy small but you didn't say clearly what kind of questions you asked each person and if the questions were the same. I need to see the questions you asked these men.

Listen I know I am a nit picker and an old worry bug but I am the kind of person that needs to learn from a methodical/logical way especially if you are teaching me something valuable.

This very valuable.

So if you want to teach me more about what you have discovered from your experiences then arguments must be well thought out.

So will you help me out ?

[nuhsenutten]

Mr. Intellect........unnu still de pon the same topic ? cause im lost:eusa_doh: :eusa_eh:

[Lisa20]

You know what forget this. This like total foolishness. First evidence was asked for and when given it is another story. u know wat forget this.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

You know what forget this. This like total foolishness. First evidence was asked for and when given it is another story. u know wat forget this.

Are you gonna give that kind of response in court when your advesary starts poking holes in the case you're trying to build for your client?
:eusa_whis

[Lisa20]

This is not Court. And trust me you would want to be up against me so just forget it

[BlackCryptoKnight]

This is not Court. And trust me you would want to be up against me so just forget it

Ahh bwoy... :eusa_whis

[Gillion]

This is not Court. And trust me you would want to be up against me so just forget it

How you mean fi just get upset so ?

Good debate my girl always come with some challenge.... and you made an assertion dat need proof ?

and how come you still don't answer my initial question but what attributes you like ?

[Leina]

there is no problem being black and living in Jamaica, the problem is being a "browning" and living her because for one u are constantly harassed by less desirable men, you are hated by some women because the only the thing you do it steal their men. we are the reason why some women bleach, why some women are ignored by men. A friend of mine said that if she doesn't want to be bothered the only thing she has to do is to walk with her other brown friend.
to me this is foolishness, people consider me to be brown but i feel black. What is so important about looks it is who you are inside that really matters

[LLUDA]

Here's my one and two cents. We have been brainwashed (well some of us ) i know first hand about da slave mentality my grandma had my dad with a white man, next thing she neva liked my mom she said her son shoulda married someone that carry off him colour. Anyways its just sad cause i see females who are black (darker) and so beautiful bleaching out their colour and turnin into scary characters, its all silly if u ask me. I wonder when the "brown stick around, black stand back" gonna stop, we deny it but its still rampant. Me personally i'm not picky (maybe i am cause a white girl or brown wouldnt be my first choice reason being guys hype them up too much and i'm not average joe) but its getting to know the person thats what counts i think. when will all this stop is beyond me, Sista's you need to love yourself no matter the colour, tone whatever, then u will froce us guys to look deeper (i hope).

[Bahama Mama]

there is no problem being black and living in Jamaica, the problem is being a "browning" and living her because for one u are constantly harassed by less desirable men, you are hated by some women because the only the thing you do it steal their men. we are the reason why some women bleach, why some women are ignored by men. A friend of mine said that if she doesn't want to be bothered the only thing she has to do is to walk with her other brown friend.
to me this is foolishness, people consider me to be brown but i feel black. What is so important about looks it is who you are inside that really matters


I doubt women of lighter hues 'brownings' are the only reason that women of darker hues bleach. The mentality that lighter is better is often one that is entrenched in a persons psyche from the time they are young and impressionable by family members. A shame it is. If parents, and other family members would instill a sense of pride in young girls about their physical attributes, darker skin, kinky hair, etc. black societies like Jamaica and my own would not have a ton of women walking around with low self esteem, insecurity about themselves, and putting that lye on their face.

Darker skin does not equate to ugly, lighter skin 'browning' does not equate to beautiful. Beauty is found in all hues. Take the former Ms.Trinidad and Ms. Universe Wendy Fitzwilliam, she was a dark skinned woman. Her beauty was unquestionable. May be if one removed such labels like browning from everyday language, it can inititate a change in mentality. Black comes in many hues, from dark dark brown to the lightest brown. If you go to North America, they will refer to most people of dark brown to light brown complexion as Black. There would be no such thing as a browning, which to me sounds classsist.

A dark skinned woman who has a strong sense of who she is and loves the way God made her will have no reason to hate lighter skin women. She will have the kind of confidence that no man or woman can break.

[Bahama Mama]

Here's my one and two cents. We have been brainwashed (well some of us ) i know first hand about da slave mentality my grandma had my dad with a white man, next thing she neva liked my mom she said her son shoulda married someone that carry off him colour. Anyways its just sad cause i see females who are black (darker) and so beautiful bleaching out their colour and turnin into scary characters, its all silly if u ask me. I wonder when the "brown stick around, black stand back" gonna stop, we deny it but its still rampant. Me personally i'm not picky (maybe i am cause a white girl or brown wouldnt be my first choice reason being guys hype them up too much and i'm not average joe) but its getting to know the person thats what counts i think. when will all this stop is beyond me, Sista's you need to love yourself no matter the colour, tone whatever, then u will froce us guys to look deeper (i hope).


I have to agree man, it is sad to see women bleaching out their nicely toned chocolate complexions in attempt to be lighter skinned. They are doing more damage in the long run, burning their skin and causing irreversible damage.

[kirklove]

Been in JA is....................

[Kimberly]

You're kidding me right? The majority of the population is bleaching in a hope to getting black men? :confused:



:eusa_wall



:eusa_wall



Dat a di least...

Lol

Its a Good thread,though.
I agree with many of the points.
This whole browning thing is a direct result of slavery.
Many of these light-skinned people dont realize that why they are brown and not white is because they have black ancestry.

[nuhsenutten]

Here's my one and two cents. We have been brainwashed (well some of us ) i know first hand about da slave mentality my grandma had my dad with a white man, next thing she neva liked my mom she said her son shoulda married someone that carry off him colour. Anyways its just sad cause i see females who are black (darker) and so beautiful bleaching out their colour and turnin into scary characters, its all silly if u ask me. I wonder when the "brown stick around, black stand back" gonna stop, we deny it but its still rampant. Me personally i'm not picky (maybe i am cause a white girl or brown wouldnt be my first choice reason being guys hype them up too much and i'm not average joe) but its getting to know the person thats what counts i think. when will all this stop is beyond me, Sista's you need to love yourself no matter the colour, tone whatever, then u will froce us guys to look deeper (i hope).
true my brother .........no bleachin right here(all man a do it now adays)

[virus_ncu]

i can spot a girl that bleach a mile away. i dont want no bleaching girl because she did black before.

[dyllon]

No bleachin roun here rasta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LadyMC]

Hey, this post reminds me of a poem I saw a long time ago....So i went and dug it up on the internet for anyone who may read this post and just happen to be ashamed of being black. It has 2 parts, the question and Gods reply. Gonna put it in two separate posts cuz it's kinda long. It's called "Lord, Why did you make me black"


LORD, WHY DID YOU MAKE ME BLACK?

Lord, Lord,
Why did You make me Black?
Why did You make me someone
The world wants to hold back?

Black is the color of dirty clothes;
The color of grimy hands and feet.
Black is the color of darkness;
The color of tire-beaten streets.

Why did you give me thick lips,
A broad nose and kinky hair?
Why did You make me someone
Who receives the hatred stare?

Black is the color of a bruised eye
When somebody gets hurt.
Black is the color of darkness.
Black is the color of dirt.
How come my bone structure's so thick;
my hips and cheeks are high?
How come my eyes are brown
and not the color of the daylight sky?

Why do people think I'm useless?
How come I feel so used?
Why do some people see my skin and think I should be abused?

Lord, I just don't understand;
What is it about my skin?
Why do some people want to hate me
And not know the person within?

Black is what people are "listed",
When others want to keep them away.
Black is the color of shadows cast.
Black is the end of the day.

Lord, You know, my own people mistreat me;
And I know this just isn't right.
They don't like my hair or the way I look
They say I'm too dark or too light.

Lord, Don't You think it's time
For You to make a change?
Why don't You re-do creation
And make everyone the same?

[LadyMC]

(God answered: )

Why did I make you black?
Why did I make you black?

Get off your knees and look around.
Tell Me, what do you see?
I didn't make you in the image of darkness.
I made you in the Likeness of ME!

I made you the color of coal
From which beautiful diamonds are formed.
I made you the color of oil,
The black-gold that keeps people warm.

I made you from the rich, dark earth
That can grow the food you need.
Your color's the same as the panther's
Known for (HER) beauty and speed.

Your color's the same as the Black stallion,
A majestic animal is he.
I didn't make you in the Image of darkness
I made you in the Likeness of Me!

All the colors of a Heavenly Rainbow
Can be found throughout every nation;
And when all those colors were blended well,
YOU BECAME MY GREATEST CREATION.

Your hair is the texture of lamb's wool
Such a humble, little creature is he.
I am the Shepherd who watches them.
I am the One who will watch over thee.

You are the color of midnight-sky,
I put the stars' glitter in your eyes.
There's a smile hidden behind your pain
That's the reason your cheeks are high.

You are the color of dark clouds formed
when I send My strongest weather.
I made your lips full so when you kiss
the one you love they will remember.

Your stature is strong; your bone structure, thick
to withstand the burdens of time.
The reflection you see in the mirror...
The Image looking back at you is MINE!

- RuNett Nia Ebo

Inspired by the book of Genesis 1:26a and 27a&c
That's it. It stuck with me for years, so I figure it just might touch someone else. Really cool poem :eusa_clap

[J.A.4life]

I love that poem where did you get.

[J.A.4life]

I know I am a little late but this is my first time on. This whole color thing should not be but it is because [B]MOST[B] men like their woman to be lighter and because of that most Dark skin women feel left out and want to bleach their skin so that they could get some attention too.

[Manu]

Gees....so having a preference for or being more attracted to....is a result of slavery?

[pogi_2nr]

I love my coffee without the milk.. ;)

anyway lets look at some fools:
http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH T MEMORIAL/DSC07632.jpg
Come on now!
http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH T MEMORIAL/DSC07633.jpg
willy bounce :eusa_danc
http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH T MEMORIAL/DSC07635.jpg
at least do more than your face so its not so obvious.

Regards,
Pogi Tuner.

[chany86]

LOLOL. wooo, hot boys in those piks...but there are darker skin ppl around him who aint bleaching. what was thinking??

cho. oh well. his skin not mine

[Xenocrates]

Gees....so having a preference for or being more attracted to....is a result of slavery?

Good question manu.

Let me say from my Athropological studies:


The black inferiority complex is NOT derivative of slavery.

Therefore, everyone who has posted before who has suggested that:

It's because of your parent's brainwashing
It's because of slavery
It's because of colonial habitation and inter-breeding

...are all dead wrong.

The inferiority complex of black people has gone on long before the days of your parents, Bob Marley, colonialism, slavery and even modern recorded civilization.

The children of Ham which took on the negroid genome, the Cushítes, separated from the original family of Noah because of this very same reason. They settled in what is now known as Ethiopia.

Everywhere in recorded history where the original caucasians encountered black people or just any people of a darker complexion, the settlers subdued themselves to the caucasians because of a genetically inbred sense of inferiority in all human beings. It has nothing to do with culture, class, slavery or colonialism. In fact, it is BECAUSE of this inferiority complex, why we've had slavery, classism, racism, wars and colonialism.

Proof:

When Christopher Columbus came to the new world, the Arawaks (which are genetically akin to the Native American Indian) thought them to be Gods, and in some cases, worshipped them.


When the French settlers first travelled to Africa in the 18th Century, the black villagers brought food and sacrifices to them, in an attempt to worship them. The French settlers instead of capitalising on their ignorance, setup peaceful relations with the black tribes for trade and communion.


When the British Kingdom first settled in Australia, everywhere the Aboriginees first encountered them, they attempted to worship them. But unlike the French, the Brits capitalized on the ignorance of the Aboriginees and drove them off their land to create what is now known as Sydney.


When the Conquistadors first came to Central America, the Mayas and Aztecs brought them gold in various forms, as an offering to them in "recognition of their perceived superiority". Again, unlike the French, the Conquistadors plundered their cities, driving them to the brink of extinction.


When the English needed workers for the new world after the Arawaks died out, they travelled to Africa, where the black villages there willfully submit themselves to the Europeans for what they perceived to be an exchange of wealth. When they finally made sense of what they were trying to do, the village leaders sold out their own village people into slavery, in exchange for monetary wealth.


To this very day, even in the Jamaican Government, Gov't officials would rather spend millions of dollars for WHITE consultants from the North to come into the organisation to do work and participate in projects where their own employees could have easily done themselves for no extra cash.


Black people who have caucasian, asian or Aryan Indian bosses, always subject themselves to "kissing up" to them or subconsciously exhibit behaviour that would suggest that they consider themselves inferior to these other people of fairer physical traits.


- What exactly am I trying to say? It's pretty obvious:

The inferiority complex of black people is a primordial element of the consciousness of all human beings. It is not limited to black people.

We are genetically ingrained with that mentality. ALL of us. Do you think your parents learned that from their parents? That can't be the case. Most of your parents were not born in slavery. Most of your parents have NEVER worked for a non-black person.

[Bahama Mama]

My lawd, his face burn right up. I cyan stan ta see man bleach, so unattractive. But this is a good illustration of what is going in many black C'bbean societies.

[Xenocrates]

Consider this:

How is it that the Aryan Indians were able to place the darker indians into a lower caste in pre-modern India before Ghandi stood up and spoke out against it?


How is it that the Aryan Caucasians of Northern Europe (Those with the blonde hair, blue or green eyes and with males of an average height of 6 feet) were able to take Europe by force during World War II, enslaving other Caucasian races (those who had red, black or brown hair, brown eyes and males under 6 feet tall) for over 6 years of bloody war?


How is it that even today, in OUR Jamaican society, that Black people are segregating themselves from OTHER black people because one set is lighter in complexion than another?


In fact, HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE, that a white man can make a BLACK man his SLAVE?!?! Are we really that stupid?

...it's because of our innate tenacity to think ourselves inferior to others of fairer physical attributes.


IT IS HUMAN NATURE

Therefore, all this b!tching about brown skin girls versus dark skin girls is utter nonsense. Every man (and woman) is entitled to like a woman or man (respectively) based on their own ethnic preferences.


THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

It is not Discrimination or Slavery.

HOWEVER, it would be utterly FOOLISH of any person of a darker complexion, newly armed with this information, to continue thinking themselves inferior to another of fairer traits. Although it is natural human nature to think that way, we have evolved itellectually enough to counteract that kind of thinking. The sensation will ALWAYS be there, so long as a human race exists.

As such...

:icon_arro Lisa20 (if you should ever read this)

Black girls who consider themselves inferior to brown skin girls are only succumbing to this natural innate fear.

We fear whatever we don't fully understand. Such is human nature.

The Arawaks, the aboriginees, the tribes of indians and blacks living in undeveloped parts of the world always worshipped or considered themselves inferior to a race of fair skinned men because they didn't understand them, nor did they even consider them to be mortal.

Knowledge removes all fear.

When you consider brown skinned girls to be no more female than you are, you will realise that you still possess all the facets of feminism to entrance ANY man. It is utterly ridiculous to beat down on fair skinned women because they draw more male attention.

Furthermore, black woman, Why OH why, would you even want a man who is only attracted to you because of the shade of your skin? Only a fool of a woman would think like that - if you should even consider that thinking.

[Bahama Mama]

Good question manu.

Let me say from my Athropological studies:


The black inferiority complex is NOT derivative of slavery.

Therefore, everyone who has posted before who has suggested that:

It's because of your parent's brainwashing
It's because of slavery
It's because of colonial habitation and inter-breeding

...are all dead wrong.

The inferiority complex of black people has gone on long before the days of your parents, Bob Marley, colonialism, slavery and even modern recorded civilization.

The children of Ham which took on the negroid genome, the Cushítes, separated from the original family of Noah because of this very same reason. They settled in what is now known as Ethiopia.

Everywhere in recorded history where the original caucasians encountered black people or just any people of a darker complexion, the settlers subdued themselves to the caucasians because of a genetically inbred sense of inferiority in all human beings. It has nothing to do with culture, class, slavery or colonialism. In fact, it is BECAUSE of this inferiority complex, why we've had slavery, classism, racism, wars and colonialism.

Proof:

When Christopher Columbus came to the new world, the Arawaks (which are genetically akin to the Native American Indian) thought them to be Gods, and in some cases, worshipped them.


When the French settlers first travelled to Africa in the 18th Century, the black villagers brought food and sacrifices to them, in an attempt to worship them. The French settlers instead of capitalising on their ignorance, setup peaceful relations with the black tribes for trade and communion.


When the British Kingdom first settled in Australia, everywhere the Aboriginees first encountered them, they attempted to worship them. But unlike the French, the Brits capitalized on the ignorance of the Aboriginees and drove them off their land to create what is now known as Sydney.


When the Conquistadors first came to Central America, the Mayas and Aztecs brought them gold in various forms, as an offering to them in "recognition of their perceived superiority". Again, unlike the French, the Conquistadors plundered their cities, driving them to the brink of extinction.


When the English needed workers for the new world after the Arawaks died out, they travelled to Africa, where the black villages there willfully submit themselves to the Europeans for what they perceived to be an exchange of wealth. When they finally made sense of what they were trying to do, the village leaders sold out their own village people into slavery, in exchange for monetary wealth.


To this very day, even in the Jamaican Government, Gov't officials would rather spend millions of dollars for WHITE consultants from the North to come into the organisation to do work and participate in projects where their own employees could have easily done themselves for no extra cash.


Black people who have caucasian, asian or Aryan Indian bosses, always subject themselves to "kissing up" to them or subconsciously exhibit behaviour that would suggest that they consider themselves inferior to these other people of fairer physical traits.


- What exactly am I trying to say? It's pretty obvious:

The inferiority complex of black people is a primordial element of the consciousness of all human beings. It is not limited to black people.

We are genetically ingrained with that mentality. ALL of us. Do you think your parents learned that from their parents? That can't be the case. Most of your parents were not born in slavery. Most of your parents have NEVER worked for a non-black person.


I may have to ponder this one for a while Xeno. Nature or Nurture is the question eh?

[Xenocrates]

Take your time to ponder. Observe peoples of darker complexion worldwide while you're at it. ;)

[Manu]

Thank You Xeno. One question though....if a person thinks brown women look better than dark women.....does that make them racist? Or is it because that a really beautiful dark-skinned sister is harder to find than a brown skinned beauty? I guess it comes down to..what makes either girl more attractive....the color of their skin or other attributes. Brown women (mullatoes) more often than never have really pretty hair and smooth clair skin. Maybe it's the caucasian mix. Plus they tend to look better natural. Now from that stand point....I can relate to what Lisa20 is saying....but she takes a step further...which is where the problem lies....

What is your take Xeno?

[Bahama Mama]

Well I think the problem is when people align beauty with only lighter hues and ugliness with only darker hues. For some men they would take a plain looking light skin girl over a beautiful dark skin girl anyday. What that says is that some people have narrowed their ideas of beauty to simply skin complexion and nothing more. Of course it would be more sensible to look for other attributes, but society has made many of us very shallow in our thinking.

Preference should never be equated to racism. We all have that right and we all have our preferences. It only becomes racist when one treats someone in a negative way because of their physical attributes. That is wrong.

[Manu]

Well I think the problem is when people align beauty with only lighter hues and ugliness with only darker hues. For some men they would take a plain looking light skin girl over a beautiful dark skin girl anyday. What that says is that some people have narrowed their ideas of beauty to simply skin complexion and nothing more. Of course it would be more sensible to look for other attributes, but society has made many of us very shallow in our thinking.

Preference should never be equated to racism. We all have that right and we all have our preferences. It only becomes racist when one treats someone in a negative way because of their physical attributes. That is wrong.

Ok....what about that initial attraction? Most men tend to give a brown girl the time of day more than a black girl. Truth be told, the black girl is much better than the brown girl...but for she to have a chance....they have to meet over the phone or the net....so that her other attibutes show up more then her skin tone won't an issue but the brown girls provide a better first reaction. I love very beautiful black women though. Cool skinned dark girl are extremely attractive IMO.

[icuucme]

Ok....what about that initial attraction? Most men tend to give a brown girl the time of day more than a black girl. Truth be told, the black girl is much better than the brown girl...but for she to have a chance....they have to meet over the phone or the net....so that her other attibutes show up more then her skin tone won't an issue but the brown girls provide a better first reaction. I love very beautiful black women though. Cool skinned dark girl are extremely attractive IMO.Stop talk stupiness nah yute...well everybody have different preferences..i guess thas yours.

[Manu]

Stop talk stupiness nah yute...well everybody have different preferences..i guess thas yours.

OK....first you say to stop talking stupidness....then you say everyone has different preferences......which is it? Anyways....I do share some of the qualities of what I posted about but I was speaking from a third person view rather a first person one.

[Bahama Mama]

Ok....what about that initial attraction? Most men tend to give a brown girl the time of day more than a black girl. Truth be told, the black girl is much better than the brown girl...but for she to have a chance....they have to meet over the phone or the net....so that her other attibutes show up more then her skin tone won't an issue but the brown girls provide a better first reaction. I love very beautiful black women though. Cool skinned dark girl are extremely attractive IMO.


Well inital attraction depends on the individual and what draws them to an individual. Sufficed to say a pretty brown (light skin ) girl next to a pretty black (dark skin ) girl will garner more attention according to the standards set by society. But shold society's standards be your own? I dont think so. Society is to messed up to be trying to set standards.

[Manu]

Well inital attraction depends on the individual and what draws them to an individual. Sufficed to say a pretty brown (light skin ) girl next to a pretty black (dark skin ) girl will garner more attention according to the standards set by society. But shold society's standards be your own? I dont think so. Society is to messed up to be trying to set standards.

Aha.....that is exactly the point. It boils down to personal preference....whether it be influenced by society, upbringing or deriving your own taste.

[Bahama Mama]

Okay Xeno, I had a chance to read your first indepth response to thie thread. From what I gather, you are saying that all humans regardless of race possess a built in inferiority complex. If all races have this genetic element of our personality, why does it seem so pronouced in the black race, as compared to any other race? And if you are saying that we genetically are inbedded with this inferiority complex, then nothing can be done to curb its effects in the black race.

[virus_ncu]

I love my coffee without the milk.. ;)

anyway lets look at some fools:
http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH T MEMORIAL/DSC07632.jpg
Come on now!
willy bounce :eusa_danc
at least do more than your face so its not so obvious.

Regards,
Pogi Tuner.
LOL, mi naa lie star. I was on the floor in laughter and tears when i saw these pic. These picture should be in the funny bone section. it dont even need any word to say anything at all. just look and start laugh.

Why these monkey think that women like them more looking like that. and look pon the bwoy neck and hand.. he is not even all that dark, he is already brown.

[Manu]

Should put it in the "Picture This" thread....lol

[nuhsenutten]

hahahahahahahahahahahhaha.......now im wondering what in heavens name could persuade someone to do something like that to them self........
:rofl: :rotflm: :dwl: :rofl: i think he heard that two tone was the new in thing.......

[Xenocrates]

If all races have this genetic element of our personality, why does it seem so pronouced in the black race, as compared to any other race?

- Because being a black person, you're naturally inclined to having only heard information about black people and race related issues. In fact, it's more like you don't seek to find information on any other race, by virtue of us being black. Look at it this way:

When you first buy a motor vehicle, you don't realise how common that specific brand of vehicle is on the road until you've driven one or until you've taken interest in that specific brand of vehicle. The same thing applies to us as black people. We assume that only black people have this problem because we are black. We have not yet sought out information on any other race. So we are ill-equipped in making such a fallacious statement.

Consider the Asians

There are Asians who have never seen a black man before, let alone heard of black people to begin with. To them, the race superiority / inferiority complex issue has to do with them and Japan. The Japanese consider themselves to be racially superior to the chinese because the Japanese have more features that are closer in appearance with caucasians than the chinese. Additionally, Japanese culture has evolved at least 10 times faster.

Pose the same problem I have to a chinese person and they will give you the same response:

"Why is it so pronounced in Chinese people more than anyone else?"

Chinese people suffer from the same inferiority complex issue when they are in the presence of a Japanese national. For this reason, the Chinese HATE the Japanese, just like how black girls out here hate the brown skinned ones. It was particularly evident during World War II.

Likewise in Japan, they consider caucasians to be racially superior to them. This is one of the driving causes of interracial breeding of caucasians and Japanese nationals to develop a race of humans known as Euroasians. It is even evident in Japanese artwork. Their animé characters look distinctively more caucasian than Asian. It was only until recently that Video Game pioneer Hironoubo Sakaguchi highlighted this inferiority complex in Japan, and pushed Japanese videogame developers to create characters that had a more distinctively asian appearance, than the super-cute euroasian attributes that has dominated Japanese artwork since the 1960's. The result was the beautifully rendered artworkf of Final Fantasy X and upwards. Other Japanese art studios are now following suit.

Did you know about this? I bet you didn't. ;)

If you ask me Bahama Mama, the Chinese and Euro-Caucasian people have faced far more intense inferiority complex issues than Black people. It only seems more pronounced around us because you and I are black and we live in black cultures.


And if you are saying that we genetically are inbedded with this inferiority complex, then nothing can be done to curb its effects in the black race.

- Actually, something can be done. When we understand the mechanics of how and why we feel that way, you realise that it's not that big a deal. However, black people are so egocentric, that we are quick to assert that our problems are related to the colour of our skin. If just for a second we step off our self erected pedestle and realise that the problem extends to other races, we'll realise that we are making much ado about nothing. Black people are too quick to assert that their race is the most important and that we have the biggest problems. This is nothing short of nonsensical dribble based on zero research or information.

There's nothing that can be done about the inferiority complex. It will always be there for generations to come. However, we have to force ourselves not to make decisions because of that sensation. It's just like our innate disgust for homosexuality. Most people would throw up at the very thought. That is also a natural reaction. However, fighting this primordial tenacity is a fundamental necessity for the evolution of modern society. For without it, we will be nothing more than animals that don't think about our natural instinctive sensations before we act on them.

[nuhsenutten]

so thats what the wole Japan - China thing based on ? ....i somehow thought it was deeper than that

[Xenocrates]

It is deeper than that. I deliberately left out other concerns such as:

The socio-economic competition between them
Attrocities commited in China by Japanese ninja assassins in the 18th Century (burning down and slaughter of Shaolin Temple being one)
Using chinese POWs as nuclear test subjects by Japanese scientists in WWII
The hunt down and murder of several young chinese emperors by Japanese Blood Samurai (Red Dragon Clan) in a deperate stint to snuff out the Chinese monarchy
The last ditch attempt by Japan to subsume the chinese government into theirs during the turn of the 20th century

There is much MUCH more that needs to be added to this, but it all stems from the same race superiority/inferiority complex issues between the two cultures.

[Madhacker]

its not the colour of a girls skin attracts me its the way she talks, how she carries herself , her physique and her mind. But I think most of this is at first site what kind of girl would I prefer guess it boils down to one thing " IT NUH REALLY MATTER IF SHE BLACK ARE WHITE OR BROWN :) as long as am interested "

[Madhacker]

Is your Insurance company changing faces on you not giving you the details in full black and white just white well have no fair GIECO YOUTH IS hear

http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH%20T%20MEMORIAL/DSC07632.jpg
Gieco save tonns on your car insurance

Dem change just like di wheather :eusa_whis
Di freaks comes out at night the freaks comes out at night get those monkey out all ppl dem wid dem face bleach out whe you si dem you fi shout

OOOH OOOH HA HA HA :icon_twis

[nuhsenutten]

It is deeper than that. I deliberately left out other concerns such as:

The socio-economic competition between them
Attrocities commited in China by Japanese ninja assassins in the 18th Century (burning down and slaughter of Shaolin Temple being one)
Using chinese POWs as nuclear test subjects by Japanese scientists in WWII
The hunt down and murder of several young chinese emperors by Japanese Blood Samurai (Red Dragon Clan) in a deperate stint to snuff out the Chinese monarchy
The last ditch attempt by Japan to subsume the chinese government into theirs during the turn of the 20th century

There is much MUCH more that needs to be added to this, but it all stems from the same race superiority/inferiority complex issues between the two cultures.

wowo i didnt kno all that ....how come they didnt have all this stuff on the history channel.........
and here i thought black ppl had it hard .......

[pogi_2nr]

Di freaks comes out at night the freaks comes out at night get those monkey out all ppl dem wid dem face bleach out whe you si dem you fi shout

OOOH OOOH HA HA HA :icon_twis
:dwl: :rofl: :rotflm: :D

[Kimberly]

Xenocrates perhaps in your opinion those who believe many black people suffer from an inferiority complex as a result of slavery are dead wrong.
You are taking statements to several impractical extremes.
Clearly some blacks suffer from this complex as a result of other factors.For example many blacks are physically and verbally abused and this may cause low self esteem which may in turn lead to an inferiority complex.Therefore persons from different races can develop an inferiority complex.
However this topic relates primarily to black people,not Asains and final fantasy etc I am black so really I am more interested in engaging in a black discussion as the title states. Consider the United Stated,where a number of blacks suffer from an inferiority complex this is primarily a result of the racial division which exists as a result of slavery.Other factors that contribute to inferiority can also be traced to slavery.
Yes in many instances blacks discriminate against blacks,why because many blacks through experience have come to hate themselves and their own kind surely you have heard the phrase “nutten black nuh good” Job prospects are dim for them in the USA if you have a black name ex. Laquisha Spencer or Romaine Powell don’t expect to get that job because before they see your face and analyze your qualifications youre gone.Are you then saying that racism and discrimination which has contributed significantly to the inferiority complex is not a result of slavery?
You have cited evidence about Arawaks worshipping Europeans as you know the Arawaks were primitive people with low intelligence if a different species of dog was discovered roaming the land they would have likely worshipped him.Anything out of the norm they took as a sign from Gods and worshipped.
If in fact inferiority and superiority complexes (as sited in your analysis of the Chinese and Japanese) have nothing to do with slavery.Why do you think that the Chinese consider themselves superior to the Japanese because they have more Caucasian features.
The answer is simple as a result of slavery the white man has/had deemed himself superior and many people view whites as such.The whites have enslaved countless numbers of races and forced their seemingly better culture on many.The fact is even if white people are friendly to blacks in and argument the race thing always comes up if not verbally mentally. As Eminem’s former security guard said Eminem treated him very well confided in each other etc. however when he asked for a wage increase and Eminem refused, he said he wanted to resign Eminem who had a relationship with this man for over a decade said “Well the beef is on,nigga” another instance a family member told me was that she and her white friend in America were shopping and the beeper went off at the door and the alarm sounded her white “friend” immediately stated “Christ,don’t tell me you took something,why you people always…” then she stopped herself.Turns out the sales attendant had forgotten to take that white thing off of one of the items the white woman had purchased. Bear in mind that my Aunt and her the woman are co-workers who work for a mortgage company selling mortgages.She had no reason to think that my aunt would steal anything as they are both earning good salaries etc she thought she shoplifted based on her race. Yes,I know these are just incidents and some white people really treasure their friendships with blacks and would never ever judge them based on their race.
In Jamaica looking at the movers and shakers they are usually light skinned,white or of Syrian descent Audrey Marks and Aubyn Hill are just a few black people on the economic scene. Even as it concerns businesses the black man’s business gets the most criticism from fellow blacks and the least patronage.(As many of you have realized many blacks would rather see their fellow blacks suffer as they have come to prefer the idea of other races acheiving greater success many black people have a disease that cannot be cured badmine and grudge which is usually focused on their fellow people)Yes sometimes due to the fact that the black man’s prices are higher because he does not have the capital to purchase large quantities so as to get discounts from suppliers so that such savings can be brought to the consumer.Generally however, in the same manner that many people believe imported goods are better it is in the same manner that we perceive light skinned people,whites and other non-black races and attributes to be better.A black man invented the refridgerator and iron and many seldom know this why I don’t have to spell it out if it were a white man we would have most likely learnt his name in school like the inventor of electricity who was white.
As someone said people are bleaching as they feel and understandably so ignored and feel that their brown counterparts get more attention and feel the need to do something to get attention also. Instead of embracing themselves they are trying to imitate things like these should really be addressed in schools especially those in low-income areas.
About the preference thing in some instances no, but some people men and women deliberately go for light-skinned or as some people put it “high-colour” people (I despise the phrase.What really makes their colour high when I heard the Director of Personnel of a government ministry use the phrase I cringed you would think he or she would have emancipated themselves tsk tsk.) because they want someone to carry them off the fact that brown and white is better is in their subconscious so it is natural to desire persons like that without realizing the true reasons for that.
If we were to state instances of inferiority and slavery in other countries and between other races the thread would become off-topic. We are dealing with as the title states “..black…… in Jamaica”
Anyway I could write much more but im tired.
As Lisa20 and others have stated there is indeed a problem with being black and living in Jamaica. Has anyone noticed in Jamaica it is the minorities that control wealth and the economy and in the USA it’s the reverse hmmm.

[Xenocrates]

Hi, Kimberly.

Thanks for your spirited response. :D However, I'm gonna ask you to help me out. Don't take this the wrong way: Reading your post was extremely difficult for the several reasons. I don't mind reading a long bit of text (as I'm an avid reader) but let me be objective about this. I would appreciate it even moreso, if the writer observed some simple principles:


Commas - Use them to separate multiple thoughts in one sentence if you can't avoid limiting one sentence to one thought.


Run-on Sentences - Avoid placing multiple ideas in one sentence. It makes it incredibly difficult to understand otherwise. This can lead to my misquoting you or misunderstanding what you were trying to say.


Paragraph breaks - Place two carriage returns after each paragraph. One carriage return will start your next paragraph immediately under the previous one, causing multiple re-reads of the same line from subsequent lines. This is very important!


Full-Stops - Use them to separate your sentences. In a number of instances, I noticed that you had two sentences running right into each other without any full stops. It took me the better part of 15 minutes to sort out what you were saying about Aubyn Hill and black people in businesses before trying to respond to it. :icon_eek:


Space after Full-Stops & Commas - Place a single space after each full stop. The only time you don't put a space after a fullstop is if you are coding a object oriented procedure call on an instance of a class. Since I doubt you're a programmer, put a space after each full stop so it's easy for your readers to parse what you're trying to say. The same goes for commas. Your sentences are incredibly more difficult to read otherwise.


Spelling - I don't mean to nitpick, but if you spell a word incorrectly, especially in the case of a homonym (two words which sound alike but with different spellings - hence different meanings) then it is quite likely that I will misinterpret what you are trying to say. A good example is where you typed "sited" instead of "cited". Reading in context, "sited" completely changes the meaning of the entire sentence. I have to therefore make assumptions on what you really meant, which increases the risk of my misinterpreting, misquoting or completely misunderstanding what you were trying to say. I do not wish to fall into a "he said, she said" argument on syntax. So it's important we use the right spelling - especially in a lengthy response. Typos I'll forgive. But you probably won't forgive me if I misunderstand you. It's easy for discussions of this sort to become emotional.

If we're going to have lengthy responses to each other, we need to make our thoughts clear, concise, correct and comprehensible. Otherwise, it significantly increases the risk of misunderstanding by your fellow readers. Take it from me. I learned the hard way on TechJamaica. ;)

With that out of the way, let's get on with the business of the discussion! :icon_mrgr

[Xenocrates]

You are taking statements to several impractical extremes.

- I highly doubt that. I'll explain:


Clearly some blacks suffer from this complex as a result of other factors.For example many blacks are physically and verbally abused and this may cause low self esteem which may in turn lead to an inferiority complex.

- And why are they ridiculed? It's because of an Superiority Complex. They both stem from the same psychological dissonance.


However this topic relates primarily to black people,not Asains and final fantasy etc

- I concur. My attempt was to however show that the entire topic is moot, since black people aren't the only people who suffer from this problem. It's a world wide issue (hence why I highlighted the Asians).

Why are we so pre-occupied with our blackness as though it were that important to think that the issue only relates to us? This is a nonsensical if not narrominded way to think. The reason why black people are the way they are is because they are too egocentric, narcissistic and pathologically self-loathing. It's this kind of thinking that leads us black people to despise white folks and completely misunderstand them. Fear of what we don't understand often leads to illogical social behaviour such as racism. Open your mind a little and see that the colour of your skin is NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

And if you don't believe that is your issue, check out what you said:


I am black so really I am more interested in engaging in a black discussion as the title states.

- It is thinking like this that eventually leads to prejudice and subsequently racism. It might not happen in your case, but the potential is there. It is women like you who despise brothers who hook up with white women or fair skinned girls who acquire more male attention. All I was saying previously, was that it is highly immature to become so hung up on the colour of our skin. That's a mentality that is borne out of inferior self perception. Black people should STOP thinking like that.


Consider the United Stated,where a number of blacks suffer from an inferiority complex this is primarily a result of the racial division which exists as a result of slavery.Other factors that contribute to inferiority can also be traced to slavery.

- A difficult sentence to parse initially. Anywho...

...Slavery is not the only cause of inferiority complexes. There are a number of races which were not enslaved, but their self perception was warped by them assuming that their self worth was relative to the colour of their skin. It's a downright childish way to think. You said it yourself:


Yes in many instances blacks discriminate against blacks,why because many blacks through experience have come to hate themselves and their own kind

- And I agree. This is what I was alluding to. This has been going on for HUNDREDS of years. Did you realise that it was BLACK PEOPLE who sold THEIR OWN KIND into slavery? If we all knew that, we'd stop hating white people for just one second and realise that slavery in the Caribbean was initially OUR FAULT.


surely you have heard the phrase “nutten black nuh good”

- Unlike most people Kim (can I call you Kim?), I research the root of everything I've come to know. I've heard it yes, but it has not impacted on my thinking. Understanding why the phrase existed in the first place automatically defeated the usefulness of the phrase for me. It is a self defeating expression and I refuse to let the colour of my skin become my disability.

[Xenocrates]

Job prospects are dim for them in the USA if you have a black name ex. Laquisha Spencer or Romaine Powell don’t expect to get that job because before they see your face and analyze your qualifications youre gone.

- You're generalizing - fallaciously at that. Apparently you've never heard of "white trash". There are white folks in the US who can't get a job because they live in a trailer park. What's your point? :eusa_thin


Are you then saying that racism and discrimination which has contributed significantly to the inferiority complex is not a result of slavery?

- Absolutely! Adolf Hitler discriminated against ALL non-aryan whites, even though none of them were enslaved! He made it personal for Jews (which do not exhibit aryan qualities). Do yourself a favour, Google up:

Aryan Supremacy, The Third Reich and The Nazi Party

You'll realise that this very debate is born out of ignorance.


You have cited evidence about Arawaks worshipping Europeans as you know the Arawaks were primitive people with low intelligence if a different species of dog was discovered roaming the land they would have likely worshipped him.Anything out of the norm they took as a sign from Gods and worshipped.

- Another difficult to read sentence...anywho...

...This is still an inferiority complex. Explain to me then why other races did not worship the Egyptians who were technologically superior to them, although they were much darker in complexion than other races further south on the continent or futher west?

The Greeks were caucasians. Yet many Greek Philosophers travelled to Egypt and adapted their mathematical teachings without worshipping the Egyptians. In fact, the Pythagoras' Theorem is EGYPTIAN MADE. He said it himself.

Another example; The Medes and Persians are darker in complexion than the Greeks. Alexander the Great was not white (as the movie depicts) - Yet he and his army CONQUERED GREECE, which is populated by caucasians! Interestingly enough, he was taught by a Caucasian: Aristotle! He didn't let the colour of his skin (or his wayward sexuality) stop him from being the greatest conqueror in World History.

I could name many more examples... but I think you get the point.


If in fact inferiority and superiority complexes (as sited in your analysis of the Chinese and Japanese) have nothing to do with slavery.Why do you think that the Chinese consider themselves superior to the Japanese because they have more Caucasian features.

- I'm not sure how to read this sentence. I think you put full stops where there shouldn't be any, and there might be a few missing question signs. So I'm going to take a best guess at what you're saying:

Correction: It's the Japanese that consider themselves superior to the Chinese. Therefore:


The answer is simple as a result of slavery the white man has/had deemed himself superior and many people view whites as such.

- Incorrect. The war between Japan and China had been going on for centuries before the white man was smart enough to think that the world was round. Therefore, it is impossible that the white man's slavery could have caused this effect.


The whites have enslaved countless numbers of races and forced their seemingly better culture on many.

- You make it seem as though the caucasians were the only race to enslave another. Persians enslaved greeks and other races, including negroes and Indians. The Egyptians enslaved the Hebrew. In the case of the Egyptians, they were darker in complexion to their Medo-Persian complexion Hebrew slaves. Again, this point is moot.


The fact is even if white people are friendly to blacks in and argument the race thing always comes up if not verbally mentally. As Eminem’s former security guard said Eminem treated him very well confided in each other etc. however when he asked for a wage increase and Eminem refused, he said he wanted to resign Eminem who had a relationship with this man for over a decade said “Well the beef is on,nigga”

- Get your story straight. If his bodyguard hadn't started the race argument ("oh, it's because I'm black"), Em would not have resigned to using the expression "nigga" in the first place. Em doesn't consider the color of his skin when doing his thing as a hindrance. In fact, he's made countless inferences to "White America" and how they treat him differently from his black rap counterparts because he is white. If Eminem considered himself to be superior to black folks, then tell me this:

Why OH WHY would Em continue to sign BLACK ARTISTES to his Shady Label?

[Xenocrates]

another instance a family member told me was that she and her white friend in America were shopping and the beeper went off at the door and the alarm sounded her white “friend” immediately stated “Christ,don’t tell me you took something,why you people always…” then she stopped herself...

- You've highlighted an instance here of racial profiling. This has virtually nothing to do with what we're talking about. I could write you an exegesis on how this came to be, but that would take us away from the discussion. Perhaps in another thread if you so desire. (hint, hint ;) )


Yes,I know these are just incidents and some white people really treasure their friendships with blacks and would never ever judge them based on their race.

- Okaay... so what's your point? I'm not seeing what you were trying to prove. :eusa_eh:


In Jamaica looking at the movers and shakers they are usually light skinned,white or of Syrian descent Audrey Marks and Aubyn Hill are just a few black people on the economic scene.

- So what? Is that to say that black people can't have successful businesses too? Let's illustrate something here for a second:

How white people think:

- I will sacrifice anything necessary for the business to survive using the smartest means necessary.

How Asian People think:

- I will never work for anyone else but myself. I will sacrifice anything necessary to feed my family.

How Indian/Syrian people think:

- I will go into any form of business where the returns for maximum growth exist.

How black people think:

- I will get rich or die trying. I'll only start a business to feed myself, or get rich, whichever comes first.

A recent survey done by the University of Technology (2004 - 2005) showed a VERY DISTINCT correlation between:

The race of a person
The way how they look at making money

Black people go into business for more selfish reasons than people of other races. Why is that? There are many social implications of this. However, when you consider what a famous sociologist said in light of black people selling black people into slavery, it makes perfect sense. Paraphrased:


Black people will never own a successful business in Jamaica. We are like crabs in a barrel. As soon as one of us reaches the top, another drags him down....

...[our society] seems to be pre-occupied with becoming rich, not because we were taught by the americans to do likewise, but because of a cultural stigma where we seek to overcompensate our self worth more than to create wealth for the many...

I don't need to add more to this.

[Xenocrates]

Even as it concerns businesses the black man’s business gets the most criticism from fellow blacks and the least patronage.(As many of you have realized many blacks would rather see their fellow blacks suffer as they have come to prefer the idea of other races acheiving greater success many black people have a disease that cannot be cured badmine and grudge which is usually focused on their fellow people)

- I agree 100%. I couldn't have said it better myself. :eusa_clap


Yes sometimes due to the fact that the black man’s prices are higher because he does not have the capital to purchase large quantities so as to get discounts from suppliers so that such savings can be brought to the consumer.

- Not true. A lecturer @ UTECH once told us that 90% of businesses in Jamaica FAIL even with an oversupplied capital, because the entrepreneurs are self-growth thinkers, rather than business growth thinkers. Like I said before, black people in this society are too egocentric. They don't think about how to grow the business. They are too busy figuring out how to get rich - in so doing, they eat out their own business and drive themselves into bankruptcy.


Generally however, in the same manner that many people believe imported goods are better it is in the same manner that we perceive light skinned people,whites and other non-black races and attributes to be better.

- Not quite. At the distribution level, imported goods are CHEAPER than locally manufactured goods. This is why their produce FLOODS the market far more effectively because of their low acquisition and distribution costs. This makes them more ubiquitous than local goods, hence heightening the sensation that "they are better".


A black man invented the refridgerator and iron and many seldom know this why I don’t have to spell it out if it were a white man we would have most likely learnt his name in school like the inventor of electricity who was white.

- A chiney man invented the Kite and Gun power. Indians invented curry and pioneered the use of silken raiment. Egyptians invented trigonometry and other more complex mathematical paradigms. The information is there for those who seek it. I learned all those things in school too. However, your example is a little flawed since:

The harnessing of electricity (electricity was invented by God) gave way to...
The invention of the elecrical iron (and every other electrical item)


...hence making it a far more important discovery (not invention). Furthermore, in most caucasian societies, the Clothing Press and Wash and Wear garments are more ubiquitous. Electrical Irons (and garments that need such things) flood markets of poorer nations where such luxuries would not achieve economies of scale. ;)

[Xenocrates]

As someone said people are bleaching as they feel and understandably so ignored and feel that their brown counterparts get more attention and feel the need to do something to get attention also. Instead of embracing themselves they are trying to imitate things like these should really be addressed in schools especially those in low-income areas.

- I agree. However, my concern is that a discussion of this sort will make the fair skinned people on the board feel discriminated against. Two of them are moderators. I think the concern of the thread starter is somewhat infantile for this reason. It would almost seem as if a great injustice was made against people of a darker complexion. If these people feel the need to bleach their skin, its a failure in their own thinking and the thinking of others around them which perpetuate that kind of mentality. Being dark skinned is not a disability.

Case in point: When I was at St. George's College, every evening we were inundated with girls from Immaculate. RARELY were any of them were brown skinned or white girls (those girls are quickly whisked home by their super-security conscious rich parents). When these girls come over for ICF meetings or Key Club, the white males in our group bonded with these dark skinned girls.

Today - many years later, 4 of these guys have MARRIED black women. I have another white male friend who lives in Stony Hill who has been dating a black girl for the last 6 years... they are currently engaged to be married.

AGAIN, I say, if black women feel that the colour of their skin is a disability, that's a FAILURE of their own thinking capacity. You guys are only seeing the coin from one side. Flip it over and look again.

Black women should not be so narrow minded. There's always balance in the universe.


About the preference thing in some instances no, but some people men and women deliberately go for light-skinned or as some people put it “high-colour” people

- And there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it.


(I despise the phrase.What really makes their colour high when I heard the Director of Personnel of a government ministry use the phrase I cringed you would think he or she would have emancipated themselves tsk tsk.) because they want someone to carry them off the fact that brown and white is better is in their subconscious so it is natural to desire persons like that without realizing the true reasons for that.

- I agree 100% :eusa_clap Ignorance is a disease.


If we were to state instances of inferiority and slavery in other countries and between other races the thread would become off-topic. We are dealing with as the title states “..black…… in Jamaica”

- I disagree. The thread is borne out of the narrowminded view of one person. That kind of mentality is what leads to racism! I will share with you one thing that I shared with my TechJamaica people in the past:

Thinking outside of the box doesn't consitute going off-topic. People are too afraid of thinking differently, because we are stuck to believing the nonsensical evil that we feel we must stick to.


Anyway I could write much more but im tired.

- I would be surprised if you weren't. :icon_mrgr :p


As Lisa20 and others have stated there is indeed a problem with being black and living in Jamaica.

- And the problem lies with us. We should stop pointing fingers at everyone else and look into our own frailties for answers. Black people should stop getting so hung up about the shade of their skin tone. It's a narrowminded way to think.


Has anyone noticed in Jamaica it is the minorities that control wealth and the economy and in the USA it’s the reverse hmmm.

- I don't know if you realise that you're contridicting an earlier point you attempted to make, but I'll let sleeping dogs lie. :icon_mrgr

Good debate Kim. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/xenocrates/Smilies/thumb.gif

[Manu]

Damn Xeno....what a response...sheesh......LONG MAN!

I do think that your stating of the thread starter being narrow minded (albeit true)...is setting the tone for flaming....since this person is indeed so narrow minded. Better ways to get your poitn across....you taught me that ;)

[virus_ncu]

What? LOL. Oh my... Kim, i hope you did'nt saw the respoinse and ran away in shame.

[LadyMC]

I don't think it's all based on slavery.

It's black men that are supposedly discriminating against black women. What about white men dating and marrying black women? If it were an inferiority complex solely based on slavery, I would imagine that white men willing to be with black women would eliminate that mind set... and vice versa

I think we're just using slavery as an excuse, because we couldn't think of any other reason for our way of thinking. It's an easy little escape route.... "it's all the white man's fault".

[nuhsenutten]

-

- I concur. My attempt was to however show that the entire topic is moot, since black people aren't the only people who suffer from this problem. It's a world wide issue (hence why I highlighted the Asians).

think we should use this to realise that we are actually better off than other minorities. while they are making the best out of their situation while we still talking bout something that started 400+ yrs ago




- And I agree. This is what I was alluding to. This has been going on for HUNDREDS of years. Did you realise that it was BLACK PEOPLE who sold THEIR OWN KIND into slavery? If we all knew that, we'd stop hating white people for just one second and realise that slavery in the Caribbean was initially OUR FAULT

graet point man .....stop blaming the wgite man .....
to this day black ppl still selling out each other...to get ahead
we need to stop this foolishness.........



damn man thats a hell of a response still.........how long it take u to post those messages

[Manu]

Correction....slavery was abolished 200-300 years ago....but it lasted 400+ years....hope I'm right......what a hell if i'm wrong :icon_redf

[Xenocrates]

I think we're just using slavery as an excuse, because we couldn't think of any other reason for our way of thinking. It's an easy little escape route.... "it's all the white man's fault".

- I agree. I couldn't have said it better myself. :eusa_clap

:icon_arro Manu

Point taken, on both accounts. ;) And yes, you're perfectly right about the slavery bit.

:icon_arro The Length of My Response

When you got som'n to say, best say it and not just think it. Her response to the issue was a long one. There was a lot to clear up, and each issue was addressed. I'm meticulous like that.

[Kimberly]

Xenocrates, firstly let me address your first response about grammar and sentence structure.Right here I had my academic acheivements but again since I dont have anything to prove to Xenocrates or nyone else for the fact of that matter, I have deleted them. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence and my command of the English Language. In many instances the Director of Personnel that I referred to previously calls me to go over speeches,find ice-breakers,vet things etc.
Now I am conversing online, with strangers the environment of this website is not a formal one; as such I do not feel the need to pay careful attention to my sentence structure and other language factors. Unlike you I do feel the need to gain the awe of fellow members of websites due to the display of areas of my knowledge (which in many instances are un-warranted and off-topic) many of them are like the useless fact of the day kind of thing.Many people do not pay careful attention to language etc when the setting is informal. In many informal settings involving persons with a good grasp of the English Language patois is used.
This site is one where persons should feel free to discuss things in a manner where grammar isn’t scrutinized. I think this point was brought across in its name caribYARD,this is how I speak and write informal documents such as e-mails and how I speak at my yard. If I wanted to have people pming me about the meaning of words and to explain to them historical happenings, I would right in much the same manner you have. I seek to gain the understanding of everyone on sites thus my manner of speaking is such that most everyone can interpret.
If as you have you have difficulty reading posts that don’t utilize commas etc then why bother to participate on websites. You would be surprised to hear certain ministers ( one of whom was my former neighbour) whilst playing dominoes or informally socializing.
Are you really bringing up spelling, you do know of human error and if I had as much time as you apparently have on your hands I would go through all of your posts and highlight spelling errors. In lengthy posts spelling errors are almost guaranteed.
You are trying to impress and have apparently succeeded to an extent and in addition trying to embarrass members.That's your style I thought your comment to a member of "get over it" was rude when she has made a valid point. Everyone knows you can read the post but you are trying to come across as being an intellectual God. I wonder if this is even remotely the case. With attitudes like your own its no wonder Lisa20 called it a day. Even though some of her statements were a bit foolish.
Now you have given your “advice” about grammar and language. Now here is some “advice” increasingly everyday people from all walks of life are getting familiar and participating online. Many of these people simply leave others in the dust when it comes to comparisons of wealth, assets and achievements educational or otherwise. Many of them seek to unwind and leave grammar etc to reality using anonymity to pretty much say anything they want anyway they want. So don’t jump to conclusions or attempt to criticize as you simply don’t know to whom you are conversing with.
Clearly I am Jamaican thus again I am usually interested in Jamaican oriented topics online. Im black so im primarily interested in black interest topics the slavery of a,b,c,d,….z broadens one’s knowledge but is not my primary interest. Don’t attempt to tell me my issues.
I find many people's internet persona laughable. I use the word internet because like online predators people come online knowing very well no one knows them so they seek to paint themselves in intellectual, angelic and a host of other lights.You have others that have nauseating personalities that feel the need to tell everyone online and otherwise their acheivements etc you strike me as that type.
I am a very busy individual I don’t come online frequently and I certainly don’t have the time to engage in online flaming. In addition I simply don’t have the time to decipher lengthy posts and then monitor the responses back and forth. My viewpoint is simple slavery has largely contributed to the lack of opportunities available to black people; the effects of slavery are still felt today and discrimination and racism which are a major result of slavery aids in the fostering of the inferiority complex.
This in turn has led to many black people bleaching as many people prefer light-skinned people simply because black is inferior to white and light is closer to white.
I think that should be simple enough for anyone to understand.
Virus_NCU surely you know that you can look for my name in the members list and see the time of my last online activity. This is the first time I have come online since the previous post in this thread. Lol at your comment about me running away in SHAME.
Ive shown one of my friend’s this thread and she was simply laughing ,I will refrain from participating in this thread after this post.Im a firm believer of quiting while im ahead. I understood and many have understood with ease the points the thread starter was trying to convey but instead have sought to inch the thread off-topic whilst berating others views.


You have quoted my statement of I am black so really I am more interested in engaging in a black discussion as the title states.

Your response
- It is thinking like this that eventually leads to prejudice and subsequently racism. It might not happen in your case, but the potential is there. It is women like you who despise brothers who hook up with white women or fair skinned girls who acquire more male attention. All I was saying previously, was that it is highly immature to become so hung up on the colour of our skin. That's a mentality that is borne out of inferior self perception. Black people should STOP thinking like that.

“Its women like me…” remember my previous advice of being careful what you say to people since you don’t know who you are speaking to. Now are you saying that I despise my father who has taught me valuable life lessons and has aided in numerous ways. When I read this I simply laughed. I am black, but a light skinned black. My father is very dark, my mother is fair. The only thing immature here are you assumptions and classifications of people as well as you trying to psycho-analyze them. It is through him that I can understand the plight of many incidentally he is an Attorney-at-law so no he isn’t blaming his extremely dark completion and racism on his position in life. Nor was he blaming whites and light-skinned people when he had nothing but he can surely relate to those who do especially in the United States.
Let me again relate a story I heard regarding a well known light skinned family. This family has a son who attends a school abroad, one of the professors used him as an example in a discussion referring to him as black which he is; the boy took offense corrected the professor and told him he was white when other members of the class snickered etc. he cried and the school had to write the parents and I believe he is now going to or trying to get accepted to another school. *clears throat*
In addition you are really not in a position to tell anyone how to think, especially myself.
Go and preach this gospel to the inner-city youth if you want to gain some REAL recognition;but you would have to modify the message as they primarily blame the government for their misfortunes.
I hear you speaking of disabilities due to skin colour etc.
You are not speaking to a down on her face dark girl who is blaming things on slavery.
My skin colour is not a disability neither is the skin colour of dark skinned blacks who would agree with many of my points.Right here I had listed some of my assets but decided against it. I had deemed these things necessary to post because your response is extremely condescending and as such I find several aspects of the post and its overall tone insulting. However, many people may think I am lying and showing off and I would have to upload pics which I dont want to and is difficult for me to do.
I get the feeling that this guy believes that I have had a hard life and I am blaming my misfortunes on whites and light skinned people. So I thought I should clear up a few things for him, but it may rub some people the wrong way.
In regards to the statement made by your Utech professor many of these people should really own their own business before they speak. Fortunately, I have owned a newborn clothing store and plan to venture into another area soon. I wont bother to state what my dark skinned father who I know would agree with most of my points owns or his investor friend from England also darked skinned or his carpenter friend again dark skinned.

[Kimberly]

Quote
And I agree. This is what I was alluding to. This has been going on for HUNDREDS of years. Did you realise that it was BLACK PEOPLE who sold THEIR OWN KIND into slavery? If we all knew that, we'd stop hating white people for just one second and realise that slavery in the Caribbean was initially OUR FAULT

Oh I see, I should blame the black people in Africa that sold the slaves to the Europeans who made billions from the expoitation,abuse and tortured of blacks. Some of these billions that have actually helped founded white businesses etc while blacks in Africa are still poor as dirt. I am sure you read my statement about primitive people. Did you do Caribbean History? Well I did, if you did the subject or even conversed with some people on the topic they would tell you the Africans the whites were a people they had never seen. They in a sense believed them to be God etc these Africans were far less intelligent that African today or ourselves today. That is a totally different era many people who today are blaming Africans for slavery would have probably sold their fellow people to whites as well in that time period.
The whites showed them shiny trinkets etc and with the effect of these shiny never-before seen objects (trinkets and the white people) met all of the whites requests.
So if blacks are to be blamed then Rodney King, Yusef Hawkins, Malice Green and Latasha Harlins should not blame the whites and other races who have abused them they should blame their ancestors.I understand,if the Africans had not sold them to the Europeans many Caucasians today wouldnt abuse them because they are ******s and inferior. In the case of Yusef Harlins he was shot by an Asian…you know how it is black people are dirt. Where did this largely mentality come from-slavery.
Unfortunately this ludicrous statement has reduced me to sarcasm-the lowest form of wit.

Job prospects are dim for them in the USA if you have a black name ex. Laquisha Spencer or Romaine Powell don’t expect to get that job because before they see your face and analyze your qualifications youre gone

You're generalizing - fallaciously at that. Apparently you've never heard of "white trash". There are white folks in the US who can't get a job because they live in a trailer park. What's your point?

Again this is you taking statements from one extreme to the next. Clearly they are some legitimately rich blacks such as the owner of Hawkins Food Group in America, Anthony Hawkins, who is a billionaire. The point of this is to bring forward a point of discrimination that has stemmed from slavery. In comparison to whites on the same level job prospects are dim for blacks. For example if a white girl that lives in a trailer park home and a black girl that lives in a trailer park home applies for a job as office attendant in a white law firm. Chances are the white girl will get it.
Level also encompasses factors such as tattoos, dyed hair etc. As I know you will get ridiculously technical and state perhaps why the white girl got the job is because she black girl probably had quite a few tattoos and the white girl didn’t.
IN SOME instances they don’t get that job not every …isha,..quada is unemployed. However, we could debate the quality of their jobs compared to the jobs of whites with similar qualifications.
“Do myself a favour google up…” Google is not my encyclopedia thank you very much :) and I am very much acquainted with historical happenings.

That must mean that every racism debate is borne out if ignorance because black people are to be blamed for slavery and oppression more so than whites.

Another difficult to read sentence...anywho...

...This is still an inferiority complex. Explain to me then why other races did not worship the Egyptians who were technologically superior to them, although they were much darker in complexion than other races further south on the continent or futher west?

The Greeks were caucasians. Yet many Greek Philosophers travelled to Egypt and adapted their mathematical teachings without worshipping the Egyptians. In fact, the Pythagoras' Theorem is EGYPTIAN MADE. He said it himself.

Another example; The Medes and Persians are darker in complexion than the Greeks. Alexander the Great was not white (as the movie depicts) - Yet he and his army CONQUERED GREECE, which is populated by caucasians! Interestingly enough, he was taught by a Caucasian: Aristotle! He didn't let the colour of his skin (or his wayward sexuality) stop him from being the greatest conqueror in World History.

I could name many more examples... but I think you get the point

I think the answer to this is simple the Greeks were more intelligent than races such as the Arawaks.



The answer is simple as a result of slavery the white man has/had deemed himself superior and many people view whites as such.



Incorrect. The war between Japan and China had been going on for centuries before the white man was smart enough to think that the world was round. Therefore, it is impossible that the white man's slavery could have caused this effect.
You do realize that I spoke about the enforcing of one races culture on another-ethnocentrism. I did not state that the whites enslaved anyone from any of the Asain continents. I stated that as a result of slavery many of them believe that they are superior in everyway and as such when they sought to impose for example many of their cultural tendencies on the Japanese and Chinese. The debate likely began. We have seen this in Jamaica. None of us were enslaved but due to the effects of slavery many of us bleach, then many of the people who bleach curse dark skinned persons that they are too black.
The whites have enslaved countless numbers of races and forced their seemingly better culture on many.

You make it seem as though the caucasians were the only race to enslave another. Persians enslaved greeks and other races, including negroes and Indians. The Egyptians enslaved the Hebrew. In the case of the Egyptians, they were darker in complexion to their Medo-Persian complexion Hebrew slaves. Again, this point is moot.

Yawn. I refer to whites as they enslaved blacks the topic of this thread. Whites enslaving blacks for the sugar, coffee, cotton and indigo trades is the largest documented case of slavery in history. I didnt say that whites were the only race to enslave another, they are the only race to enslave such a large number of people from a race and the only race that have enslaved so many different races.


- Get your story straight. If his bodyguard hadn't started the race argument ("oh, it's because I'm black"), Em would not have resigned to using the expression "nigga" in the first place. Em doesn't consider the color of his skin when doing his thing as a hindrance. In fact, he's made countless inferences to "White America" and how they treat him differently from his black rap counterparts because he is white. If Eminem considered himself to be superior to black folks, then tell me this:

Why OH WHY would Em continue to sign BLACK ARTISTES to his Shady Label?
__________________


At the time Eminem’s bodyguard had not started a race argument it was after Eminem made that statement that the bodyguard started the “race argument” In case you didn’t know several racist tapes made by Eminem have been uncovered. By the way very few people can tell me to get my facts straight concerning urban music I have over 200 original rap,hip hop and r&b cds and a few lps. Countless magazines. I have a portion of information on Bad Boy records, DeathRow Records and AfterMath all companies are related to Eminem.I have researched countless celebrities including Eminem.

This is a portion of the racist lyrics of course many ‘forgiving’ blacks believe the lyrics are nothing its just lyrics when he was upset at a black girlfriend none of friends knew him to date.

[Kimberly]

I make music to make you sick of fake music,
Hate music like devil worship and Satan music.”


“I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley to do Black music so selfishly
And use it to get myself wealthy.”

Foolish Pride
Black girls and white girls just don’t mix
Because Black girls are dumb and white girls are good chicks
White girls are good; I like white girls
I like white girls all over the world
White girls are fine and they blow my mind
And that’s why I’m here now telling you this rhyme
’Cause Black girls, I really don’t like
We don’t mix, it’s like riding a bike
When you’re peddling hard, uphill both ways
You know it’s kinda hard and that’s why I say to you
I’m giving you a little advice
Don’t date a Black girl, if you do it once you won’t do it twice
You won’t ever do it again because they’ll take your money
And that aint funny
So I’ma say look honey
I thought he said that before
But like I said again you’re nothing but a big whore
So when mike catch on the bass line
That’s okay ‘cause we will not just waste time

I’ll get straight to the point
Black girls are *****es, that’s why I’ma tell ya you better pull up your britches
‘Cause all that cash is making your *** drag

Why OH WHY would Em continue to sign BLACK ARTISTES to his Shady Label?

This must be a rhetorical question. The answer is simple money. Jimmy Iovine who is the CEO of Interscope is racist. He actually signed G-Unit since it’s a division of Shady. Why oh why did white people over the globe consume sugar that was produced by blacks by their sweat and blood during slavery? People that they considered dirt (evidenced by their complexion), I surely would not want anything as filthy as dogs producing anything for me especially something I am going to consume. Its because they served to gain from such a consumption just as how Jimmy Iovine and Eminem serve to gain from signing popular underground black artistes.



In Jamaica looking at the movers and shakers they are usually light skinned,white or of Syrian descent Audrey Marks and Aubyn Hill are just a few black people on the economic scene.



- So what? Is that to say that black people can't have successful businesses too? Let's illustrate something here for a second:

How white people think:

- I will sacrifice anything necessary for the business to survive using the smartest means necessary.

How Asian People think:

- I will never work for anyone else but myself. I will sacrifice anything necessary to feed my family.

How Indian/Syrian people think:

- I will go into any form of business where the returns for maximum growth exist.

How black people think:

- I will get rich or die trying. I'll only start a business to feed myself, or get rich, whichever comes first.

A recent survey done by the University of Technology (2004 - 2005) showed a VERY DISTINCT correlation between:


So you know how they all think-the worst form of generalizing. I didn’t say black people cant have a successful businesses, im highlighting the fact that the level of success of black businesses is lower than that of white businesses with specific reference to the United States. The USA has more whites than blacks therefore more whites patronize more white businesses. Im much the same manner that in the USA there are about 10 Scott Peterson type murders concerning black females a month but Scott Peterson got the most media coverage for the better part of last year and this year. The Peterson's are white its going to attract better nationwide coverage. A black story like that a lot of whites are going to say "black so what." Therefore advertisers lose money, the stations lose money and ratings dip.



Not true. A lecturer @ UTECH once told us that 90% of businesses in Jamaica FAIL even with an oversupplied capital, because the entrepreneurs are self-growth thinkers, rather than business growth thinkers. Like I said before, black people in this society are too egocentric. They don't think about how to grow the business. They are too busy figuring out how to get rich - in so doing, they eat out their own business and drive themselves into bankruptcy



“Not true. A lecturer @ UTECH once told us that” Were you the same guy talking about immaturity. IN A CHILDISH VOICE “NOT TRUE. MOMMY TOLD ME…” Am I to assume that everything that is said or written by professors and scholars is gospel?
I was a business owner and know several business owners many cant think about expansion as they don’t have enough capital. The major reason for the failure of many businesses is due to the fact that they are forced out of the market by large superstores; that are household names which have the ability to offer goods cheaper than most small businesses.

Generally however, in the same manner that many people believe imported goods are better it is in the same manner that we perceive light skinned people,whites and other non-black races and attributes to be better.

Not quite. At the distribution level, imported goods are CHEAPER than locally manufactured goods. This is why their produce FLOODS the market far more effectively because of their low acquisition and distribution costs. This makes them more ubiquitous than local goods, hence heightening the sensation that "they are better".
You are making no sense. In Jamaica MANY people subscribe to the belief that cheap goods are inferior. Therefore if price were a deciding factor as it concerns the quality of imported goods specifically from the United States people would deem goods produced in the United States as inferior; this is not the case.


If you are going to state God invented electricity then God invented everything by creating us.

As someone said people are bleaching as they feel and understandably so ignored and feel that their brown counterparts get more attention and feel the need to do something to get attention also. Instead of embracing themselves they are trying to imitate things like these should really be addressed in schools especially those in low-income areas.

I agree. However, my concern is that a discussion of this sort will make the fair skinned people on the board feel discriminated against. Two of them are moderators. I think the concern of the thread starter is somewhat infantile for this reason. It would almost seem as if a great injustice was made against people of a darker complexion. If these people feel the need to bleach their skin, its a failure in their own thinking and the thinking of others around them which perpetuate that kind of mentality. Being dark skinned is not a disability.

I think I addressed this previously. In much the same way that I can understand and relate to the topic I am sure they can if they think “outside of the box”. The fact is many people bleach and this is primarily because light-skinned people seem to be getting more attention and seem to be more progressive. I could give many examples of the attention thing and with my mother walking with my dark-skinned sister. In many cases contrary to your belief being dark skinned is a disability especially in the United States and the U.K.
I agree with “If these people feel the need to bleach their skin, its a failure in their own thinking and the thinking of others around them which perpetuate that kind of mentality.”
About the preference thing in some instances no, but some people men and women deliberately go for light-skinned or as some people put it “high-colour” people

And there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it.

In your opinion there is NOTHING wrong with it. Racial preferences say a lot to me, in fact racial preference and discrimination go hand in hand. Why do you think racists would rather employ whites; they PREFER caucasians. When possible the USE blacks for financial gain or other gains many of which are unspeakable.

I disagree. The thread is borne out of the narrowminded view of one person. That kind of mentality is what leads to racism! I will share with you one thing that I shared with my TechJamaica people in the past: Thinking outside of the box doesn't consitute going off-topic. People are too afraid of thinking differently, because we are stuck to believing the nonsensical evil that we feel we must stick to.

Again your perception, she made some questionable statements, in resurrecting this over one month two week old thread my first post was to laugh at one of her statements. She however raised some good points and made a good thread therefore through the “narrow-minded” view of Lisa20 we are having fun now aren’t we. If people could think outside of the box Lisa20 would not have been so greatly ridiculed and people would try and understand and relate to what she was saying. Instead others sought to ridicule the few ‘ignorant’ and inarticulate posts she made. All viewpoints on a forum should be embraced and others should try and understand another's opinions. Noone should be made to feel unworthy of participating in a discussion, I would say that many of the members simply made her feel bad so she left not the spirit of a true yard.

As it concerns your comment about “That kind of mentality is what leads to racism!” Malcolm X stated there is no such thing as a black racist. He means whatever racism a black expresses to a white is simply as a result of slavery and it effects. Let’s think about a black man with a kid from the projects whose name is Roshawn Matthews who is clean shaven,no earrings etc being turned down job after job by white people can you blame him for hating whites. I think not. I can also understand the hatred of the white man toward blacks in certain instances for example if a black thug killed one of his white family members. This is not to say that the attitude of "All white people are racist and all blacks are killers and violent" is to be condoned.

[Kimberly]

As Lisa20 and others have stated there is indeed a problem with being black and living in Jamaica.

And the problem lies with us. We should stop pointing fingers at everyone else and look into our own frailties for answers. Black people should stop getting so hung up about the shade of their skin tone. It's a narrowminded way to think.

Im not pointing fingers at a damn soul. I actually thank the white man for oppressing my forefathers since it has driven me to try and succeed as many of them have today whilst helping be to appreciate my ancestors. In addition the white man has helped in my creation. As he has helped in the creation of many Afro-Caribbean people light and dark-skinned. Many dark skinned people are mixed with all types of blood German, European etc. Quite a lot of Caribbean people have mixed blood.




Has anyone noticed in Jamaica it is the minorities that control wealth and the economy and in the USA it’s the reverse hmmm.

- I don't know if you realise that you're contridicting an earlier point you attempted to make, but I'll let sleeping dogs lie.

This shows the effects of slavery in two different ways. In Jamaica minorities consist of whites, quadroons,Syrians etc in America minorities consist of blacks and other races. So in both cases black people are on the losing end. In Jamaica the situation is quite interesting in America whites out number blacks so it understandable and logical that there would be more white millionaires than black ones. In Jamaica there are more white millionaires than black ones and they are in the minority imagine that. Just imagine minorities having more money and assets than whites or imagine a black man running for president in America and actually winning the next one hundred…no 200 years. In Jamaica that would not be a surprise.

LadyMC right now I am referring to certain people that bleach as a result of slavery and certain people that only date white and light-skinned people as a result of slavery.
It is laughable while a black man may not like black women preferring to date whites, several whites find blacks attractive. The effects of slavery are only with some people after all. Many whites arent racist many blacks havent even thought about slavery so their preferences are not being debated or referred to here.

“there was a lot to clear up…” you clearly view yourself as an extremely versed scholar whose opinions and perceptions are the best. You do know that opinions are opinions no opinions are really wrong are right. I truly hope you don’t display this attitude in everyday life; well maybe you can. For example a person who has one house and a car can easily brag to his 'friend' who lives in a one bedroom house and takes the bus.
You really haven’t cleared up a thing for me, maybe you’ve impressed and imparted some amount of knowledge to many of the teenagers on this site and I see they are many. The only thing you have cleared up for me is that you have several highly debatable and warped viewpoints.

Now Xenocrates if you are white or light skinned I can most certainly understand why you are writing what you are writing. Many of the light skinned people I know consider themselves to be almost white here and have to keep quiet when they visit America. The funny thing is call them black their face shows disdain, then when asked so what you aren’t black they get enraged and when they are called white everything seems cool. When in actuality they are not but would like to be considered so as such many of these people seek light-skinned or white partners so that they can be closer to whites in features. They are glad to have been mixed with Negro blood though as many of them love their figure which likely came from their black ancestors. Some of them though would rather everything white. Therefore the blind can see that in many instances the motives behind racial preferences are questionable. Again another example I knew this woman she was from an inner-city area she has a Masters etc and is light skinned with the academic achievement and increased salary she decided to do a full transition. She creamed her hair dyed it blond, put it extensions and dyed her eye-brows blonde. She migrated and was engaged to a white man. From I have known this woman she and her family viewed themselves as better than others in the area. Her family and majority of the families in the area were on the same level economically they thought they were better than others as they were light-skinned. She migrated and was engaged to a white guy I am sure the reason she tried to snag him was largely due to his completion. As far as I knew she never had a man before she migrated as she mostly socialized in her community where there was an over-abundance of dark skinned males.
Another case in point in high school I was walking with a light-skinned girl and a dark boy the boy said something along the lines like black people fool eeh the way he said it he was clearly viewing us as fellow blacks my friend’s facial expression changed so he asked her after giving me some signals so what you not black then an argument began.
Your argument is the kind of argument people use to justify slavery. Anyway in much the same way that I can understand the presumably dark skinned Lisa20’s view I can understand the view of the light-skinned, white and out of touch blacks who state slavery should be blamed on the Africans who sold their fellow people to whites. Since the whites were just capitalizing on an opportunity.

Btw you guys may see me addressing issues twice this is because I had initially a short response but after reading several ludicrous and erroneous statements I was forced to have a lengthy response. Xenocrates as you can see I haven’t taken an ounce of your advice grammatical or otherwise (many of these pieces of advice are void anyway since you jumped to conclusions about someone you don’t know and haven’t seen) I hope you can read the post.

[Manu]

Damn Xeno....what a response...sheesh......LONG MAN!

I do think that your stating of the thread starter being narrow minded (albeit true)...is setting the tone for flaming....since this person is indeed so narrow minded. Better ways to get your poitn across....you taught me that ;)


I had deliberately left out the grammar part because I had hoped Kimmy(if I may) wouldn't have been offended or annoyed by that as it was stated on a open forum and kind of put her the on the spot. You singled her out, ridiculed her spelling; all of which could be done via more personal channels and as such....after reading that first post....she was less willingly to objectively view any of your points whether they were valid or not. I do not, however, (albeit somewhat warranted) condone her response. We have different opinions and should be allowed to express them without being flamed, bashed or ridiculed.


Xeno...you have been in too many of these to not realise how to formulate a better response without a hint of insult to your fellow posters and Kimberly you've seen enough these posts to fall prey to them. Keep the discussions cordial. Xeno....please choose your words carefully in your response....if any. I doubt Kimberly will respond....hopefully your response won't make her feel obliged to!

Have a good morning!

[Kimberly]

Well I didnt say I didnt agree with some of the points I cant agree with the weed smoker with a platinum mouth piece with no job who spends his days playing poker who blames the white man for his circumstances.
I took the point I mainly addressed Xenocrates's points in the post.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Alrighty then... :icon_neut

Let's try and keep focus on the issues and not on taking each other to task. It's a good thread, let's keep it that way.

[Bahama Mama]

It has been my opinion for a while now that the black race is the most divided, self hating, and confused race of people on the face of this planet. While other races have felt the scourge of oppression, enslavement, discrimination, and have been treated as inferior in creation, they have somehow been able to lift themself up above this past and move on to successful generations.

Look at the Jews, the Holocaust came to an end with the completion of World War II, a mere 60 years ago. They are today among the worlds richest and most successful group of people, from Hollywood to Science. Look at the Asians, they are at the forefront of technology and Science, decades ahead of the Americans. Look at the Europeans, they are at the forefront of Art in all its forms.

Slavery is over and has been over since 1838 in the Americas. Why the hell we still in the cotton fields, why the hell we still have this house slave, field slave mentality, why the hell we so hung up on colour? Why the hell does being a shade lighter or a shade darker mean so much?

We lack some serious unity as a people. Constantly looking down on each other, and if you want proof, read some recent and ignorant statements made in one of the island sub-forums.

Yes slavery has left a mark on the black race, but in no way can it be blamed on the condition of our present and definately not on our future.

[Xenocrates]

WOW! That was an excellent read. :icon_mrgr Difficult, but excellent.

I gotta make some pre-emptive commentaries:

:icon_arro Kim (I guess I can call you Kim, since you didn't object)

I'll let the people on the board clue you in to what my ethnicity is. You might be quite surprised. You talk about my making assumptions about your personality and look at how far you've gone! LMA:icon_mrgr I find this incredibly amusing. I laughed so hard, that I cried.


I LOVE a woman with a sharp tongue. The harsher the snap back, the more excited I get. (It's a weird like).


You're fair skinned? Kim, that sweetens the deal! Let's Gidderdun!


Unlike your fellow posters, I won't bítch about your grammar behind your back. I am not the only person who has a problem with it. I am however, the only person to say it to you straight. If there's something about you that I don't like, I will say it straight to your face. That's me. I'm brutally honest like that. Ask Manu. He's experienced me straight up. You may either take it as constructive criticism, or get offended. Some people have a problem with being corrected. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with attitudes, tactfulness or choice of words. Insecurity is a bítch. But I don't think that's your issue. You're just feisty like that. And God knows, I'm loving it :icon_mrgr


:icon_arro Manu

- I won't change who I am to make people feel more comfortable with themselves. They day that happens, I'll stop being me, and become someone else. So long as I am true to who I am, then I will die happy. I would rather be damned for who I really am than to become a conformist. I don't stand out because I want to. I stand out because of who I am. It's that simple. People who know me well and know me in person, know that I am not an attention seeker. But because of the nature of my scathing character, it's hard not to get noticed.

I will be the first person to shout BULLSH... when I see it. If that makes me aggressive or "condescending", then hush. If people weren't so insecure about themselves, (so thin skinned) then you'll realise that there's absolutely nothing condescending about what I say. I say it as it is. What's there to be offended about if I call black, black and white, white? What? Y'all didn't know what the diference between black and white was? C'mon. :dwl:

On with the thread...

[Xenocrates]

:icon_arro Kim

To address your issues in brief:

I still fail to see an inextricable link between slavery and behaviour that is clearly the result of the psychological phenomenon known as an inferiority complex. Slavery is just our way of pointing fingers at the white man... again. It's such an easy escape route. Blame the white man. Do you have any white friends? I'm just curious. In fact, how many people here have white friends? Anyone? Someone? Please tell me that I'm not the only person here with white friends. I'm sure Cocoa has some.


If I prefer to marry a woman because of her skin tone, that will make me shallow, NOT racist. Hence, fundamentally, there's nothing wrong with it. There's a BIG difference. But lest we attack the straw man, the ethnicity of who we choose for a romantic rendevous does not constitute racism. Racism encompasses the proactive discrimination against another, culminating in the denial of fundamental civil rights because of their ethinicity. Choosing a browning over a darker girl is not denying the darker girl any of her civil rights. The shade of a woman's skin is merely one of many features of her physical attributes which may appeal to a man. The day I see this become law, that you should not choose a mate based on the colour of her skin, I will personally find you out and apologize in writing. Until that day, what Lisa20 is complaining about is NONSENSE. Take me to court and sue me.


While I don't consider what UTECH lecturers (they're not professors) to say as gospel, if there is evidence to support their claim to fame, and it can be backed up by independent research, there's very little justifiable reason not to believe in it's coherency.


Do you realise that Malcolm X's knocking of the white man was influenced by the Islaamic cult of which he was a part? Did you even know that He later retracted all the negative things he had to say about white people and the effect of slavery they've had on blacks. How interesting it is that you only remember the negative things he said about white people, and not the POSITIVE things he later said. Maybe if you knew that, you wouldn't have even dared to include Malcolm X in your response. Malcolm was killed by black people, from the same cult which he later forsook - because he retracted what he said, and exposed them as being BLACK RACISTS. Get your story history straight.


You say that i'm condescending, yet you refer to the other members of the board as "teenagers" who are "impressed" by my posts. Talk about a double standard. You just lost your credibility right there. I won't even mention the other truly condescending things you've said about me, since that would require that I stoop to your level. I criticized your arguments and you criticized my character. Way to go professori. You know what I call that? The hallmark of insecurity. But for many reasons, I don't think you're being insecure - at least, I would like to believe that you got caught up emotionally for a moment. Let the blood settle and converse with me. We can make this a good discussion yet. ;)



I will refrain from participating in this thread after this post.Im a firm believer of quiting while im ahead.

- So far you haven't been able to keep your promise. Thank God! I can't imagine life without women like you. As such, I'm looking forward to your response. MAKE IT SPICY! I love a good debate. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/xenocrates/Smilies/devil.gif


Nuff Love,
The Devil's Advocate,
Xeno.

[Manu]

:icon_arro Manu

- I won't change who I am to make people feel more comfortable with themselves. They day that happens, I'll stop being me, and become someone else. So long as I am true to who I am, then I will die happy. I would rather be damned for who I really am than to become a conformist. I don't stand out because I want to. I stand out because of who I am. It's that simple. People who know me well and know me in person, know that I am not an attention seeker. But because of the nature of my scathing character, it's hard not to get noticed.

I will be the first person to shout BULLSH... when I see it. If that makes me aggressive or "condescending", then hush. If people weren't so insecure about themselves, (so thin skinned) then you'll realise that there's absolutely nothing condescending about what I say. I say it as it is. What's there to be offended about if I call black, black and white, white? What? Y'all didn't know what the diference between black and white was? C'mon. :dwl:

On with the thread...


Nothing wrong with calling Bullshhh....bullshhh Xeno. People like you are rare and I applaud your honesty BUT "there are better ways to get your point across". You called me narrow-minded but I took no insult to it because I know you mean well. Kim, on the other hand doesn't know you and she's reacting pretty much the same way I did to your post on TJ. Saying stuff like "I'm sorry for not bowing down to the great Xenocrates" and whatnot...you remember? It was a thread on Time being a Circle.....remember? You could've told her about her grammar via a PM and then she could've then edited her post and took your advice as future reference but she felt offended and it did come across as being condescending.

How do I know how she felt? Call it a hunch...:icon_mrgr



You say that i'm condescending, yet you refer to the other members of the board as "teenagers" who are "impressed" by my posts. Talk about a double standard. You just lost your credibility right there.

That's her mistake......brought to the forefront and this is where you should've stopped.


I won't even mention the other truly condescending things you've said about me, since that would require that I stoop to your level.

This is where you took a jab at her (trust me...she'll see it as that) and this is where you seem condescending since you have to "stoop" to come to her level. :rolleyes:

Do you honestly think that after seeing all that before, that this:

Way to go professori. You know what I call that? The hallmark of insecurity. But for many reasons, I don't think you're being insecure - at least, I would like to believe that you got caught up emotionally for a moment.

is going to make a difference? LOL....based on tension involved already...do you really think so? Ever heard of damage control Xeno? It's funny how you preach something to me in the God thread (actually the "Questions to ask God" thread) then you're guilty of the same thing....(albeit my words were a bit more colourful).....but the essence and tone is the same.


LOL....I wonder if she actually gonna reply? I'm almost sure of it :icon_mrgr

[Xenocrates]

Au contraire mon ami, the failure of someone to read objectively is not my fault. So long as she continues to read subjectively, her response will always be cannon fodder. And don't believe I will miss that opportunity. I'm a VERY meticulous person. I read EVERYTHING. If she's smart, she'll see what I'm getting at. You were smart. You saw it. If you can, she most certainly can too. If she's not smart, she'll spring my trap and become even easier to twist up. People can't make rational sound arguments when they are emotionally aroused. They make themselves easy targets for people like me.

I reason like this:


Attack my arguments, not my personality.

...and I GUARANTEE that you and I will have a fruitful discussion.

If for ONE second, you attack my personality because of my arguments, let me tell you:

I GUARANTEE that I will use your own arguments to twist you up and make you look foolish.

I prefer cool, calm, collected debators. Like:

BlackCryptoKnight
Nigelt
Gillion
Deakie
Godkid
...heck, even YOU when you in the mood :p

When me and these dudes get locked into a debate, Nastro can tell you, the results are astounding. These guys think rationally, not emotionally. That's why the debate succeeds, irrespective of our differing points of view.

If someone thinks an objective argument is condescending, it's a product of their insecurity, not a flaw with the person who poses the postulate. That's why Nigelt was able to efficiently and effectively run circles around you guys on TechJamaica. One man against many, and still he came out with his cool intact and his postulates unchallenged. The man is brilliant - irrespective of our differing views of the situation. He played on the theist's emotional insecurity and used it as weapons against them! Emotional people can't debate. Plain and simple.

I will admit, some truths are harder to swallow. Therefore, get off your emotional pedestle for a second, and I will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. ;)

[Manu]

I hope it ends there. Really don't want CY to turn into another testosterone driven episode like that other site!

[Xenocrates]

LMAO. It probably won't. Most of the offenders aren't here. ;)

[AngelsKiss]

It has been my opinion for a while now that the black race is the most divided, self hating, and confused race of people on the face of this planet. While other races have felt the scourge of oppression, enslavement, discrimination, and have been treated as inferior in creation, they have somehow been able to lift themself up above this past and move on to successful generations.

Look at the Jews, the Holocaust came to an end with the completion of World War II, a mere 60 years ago. They are today among the worlds richest and most successful group of people, from Hollywood to Science. Look at the Asians, they are at the forefront of technology and Science, decades ahead of the Americans. Look at the Europeans, they are at the forefront of Art in all its forms.

Slavery is over and has been over since 1838 in the Americas. Why the hell we still in the cotton fields, why the hell we still have this house slave, field slave mentality, why the hell we so hung up on colour? Why the hell does being a shade lighter or a shade darker mean so much?

We lack some serious unity as a people. Constantly looking down on each other, and if you want proof, read some recent and ignorant statements made in one of the island sub-forums.

Yes slavery has left a mark on the black race, but in no way can it be blamed on the condition of our present and definately not on our future.

Comparing slavery to the holocaust is not a fair comparison. The Jews did not lose the 2 most basic characteristics that makes up a race or nation:

1) Identity
2) Language

In addition slavery lasted for several hundred years, the holocaust did not. As for the fact that blacks sold each other in to slavery is not really the point. Blacks are not the only one who sold their own into slavery.

I could go on about why slavery does affect blacks and usually I would get into this kind of debate, but what's the point?

Too often I find we have individuals who have their own thoughts and opinions and have no respect for some one else's opinions. We say we do not attact other ppl but the very way in which we put across our points is in fact an attact on the other person. Condescension and arrogance have no place in a debate.

We should be able to have a conversation/debate without the rude responses that I sometimes read in these post. I do believe we can learn from each other.

[Manu]

Ah yes my little Angel....maybe they'll listen to you....keep it cool...keep it cordial....keep it relevant!

[Xenocrates]

You forgot fun. What's the point if it isn't fun? :eusa_ange

[Greatis]

hmmm ok so I thought I would respond. Kimberly what Xeno may have said might have come off wrong to you but he has a valid point. When I read your post I had to re-read a few lines a couple times.

grammar does not have to be followed in short posts but in lengthy one's if it is not followed it can be really difficult to read.

[Bahama Mama]

Comparing slavery to the holocaust is not a fair comparison. The Jews did not lose the 2 most basic characteristics that makes up a race or nation:

1) Identity
2) Language

In addition slavery lasted for several hundred years, the holocaust did not. As for the fact that blacks sold each other in to slavery is not really the point. Blacks are not the only one who sold their own into slavery.

I could go on about why slavery does affect blacks and usually I would get into this kind of debate, but what's the point?

Too often I find we have individuals who have their own thoughts and opinions and have no respect for some one else's opinions. We say we do not attact other ppl but the very way in which we put across our points is in fact an attact on the other person. Condescension and arrogance have no place in a debate.

We should be able to have a conversation/debate without the rude responses that I sometimes read in these post. I do believe we can learn from each other.


You have a valid point about slavery and the holocaust AK, but how long will blacks wallow in the past of slavery. The chains have been released but we are still holding on to them in a desperate attempt to explain life and its circumstances, which in most cases is our own doing. Like I said before a lack of unity has been our greatest setback as a people.

[Manu]

You have a valid point about slavery and the holocaust AK, but how long will blacks wallow in the past of slavery. The chains have been released but we are still holding on to them in a desperate attempt to explain life and its circumstances, which in most cases is our own doing. Like I said before a lack of unity has been our greatest setback as a people.


Gonna play Devil's advocate here:

Maybe Blacks are not given the oppurtunity to let go because of their skin colour. After all....the lighter skinned blacks have no problem succeeding. It's mostly the darker ones. Now about the Syrians, Jew and Chinese....they're light skinned(atleast lighter than Blacks) so maybe the White Man look at them as slightly higher than dark-skinned black people...but still inferior to Whites.


These are not necessarily my opinions...but I just want to thrash out the skin colour thing once and for all......

[Bahama Mama]

Gonna play Devil's advocate here:

Maybe Blacks are not given the oppurtunity to let go because of their skin colour. After all....the lighter skinned blacks have no problem succeeding. It's mostly the darker ones. Now about the Syrians, Jew and Chinese....they're light skinned(atleast lighter than Blacks) so maybe the White Man look at them as slightly higher than dark-skinned black people...but still inferior to Whites.


These are not necessarily my opinions...but I just want to thrash out the skin colour thing once and for all......


Skin color may give you one up, but it is not a determinant of success. There are other factors involved. If skin color was the only factor, then all light skin people would be successful and all dark skin people would not. We know that isnt the case. As well why do blacks feel that white people determine our success. Why is the potential of success equated to the White Man and not ourselves?

[AngelsKiss]

You have a valid point about slavery and the holocaust AK, but how long will blacks wallow in the past of slavery. The chains have been released but we are still holding on to them in a desperate attempt to explain life and its circumstances, which in most cases is our own doing. Like I said before a lack of unity has been our greatest setback as a people.

It's not just slavery they are wallowing, it's the racism they faced on a daily basis. I agree that there are some who uses it as an excuse, but the reality is that anyone who claimed that slavery has no impact on why blacks in the western world are the way we are today need to sit back and think about it.

In fact I would go so far as to say it's irresponsible for ppl to say that slavery is not a factor. I say it's irresponsible because too many good ppl fought for for our freedom. Great men like Martin Luther King Jr, Nelson Mandela and Marcus Garvey. To say they should just get over it and to say its not a factor or a major factor is to say that these great ppl would have wasted their time.

When you take a group of ppl from their homeland and you take away their identity, their language and you subject them to every demeaning lifestyle you can think of for hundreds of years, of course it is going to affect them.

When you claim slavery is over and you still threat them with little or no regard and you tell them they are less than you, after a while some of them are going to believe it.

When we have a situation where the blacks in the western world see their motherland divided and constantly at each other throats and very little example to look at, yes they are going to wonder if they are inferior. Never minding the fact that Africa is in shambles because of the very same ppl who enslaves blacks are still there keeping the country divided for their own good.

When you have kids growing in a society that tells them they are less than others because of the colour of their skin of course they are going to feel inferior and try to change their looks.

When we have a system where racism existed for so many years and blacks were not allowed to mingle with their white counterpart until the last 20 -30 years. How can we say that slavery has not had an impact on blacks? Just a few years ago the KKK were burning blacks at the stake, how then can we say it's not a factor.

Then there are those of us who claim well, other race suffered too with out thinking about the nature of the comparison. No other race since the time of slavery lost their identity or langauge and those 2 things are the fundamental characteristics of any group of ppl.

The Indians never lost their identity or their langauge. The Chinese never lost their identity or their language. The Jews the same. Ask yourself, what holds a race together and you will come back to the same answer, their language and their identity. We didn't just loose our land but we lost who we are as ppl and to top it off we had to survive in a system that constantly abuse us.

It may seems easy to many of us that because slavery is over and we should just get over it. However if you think about many of the kids out there whose lives have been screwed up simply because of how their parents brought them up, then think about what slavery would have done to our ppl. Think about what racism has done. Yes we need to get past it, but it will take time and education. Until just a few years ago blacks especially in the USA didn't have access to education and even when they do they were abused mercilessly.

I do not condone sitting down and doing nothing or blaming the white man since blame does not get us any where but as I said before we need to understand the nature of the problem. Until we do we will never be able to fix it.

[Bahama Mama]

Good points AK. I am not trying to demean the freedom fighters of the past. It may be a little harsh to say get over it, slavery is done, but that in its most simplest form is what we as a people need to do so that we can have a brighter future.

[AngelsKiss]

Good points AK. I am not trying to demean the freedom fighters of the past. It may be a little harsh to say get over it, slavery is done, but that in its most simplest form is what we as a people need to do so that we can have a brighter future.
BM I think understand what you are saying and I was not trying to point fingers at you or any one, just my thoughts on the matter.

I just want ppl to remember that slavery may be over but racism isn't. I see it here in Canada. Our ppl continues to struggle everday in the western world. Our ppl go to jail at the drop of the hat in the USA while their white counterparts often get off for the very same trouble. We mostly hear about the negative things that happens, even the movies portray us in a negative light, so yes I can understand why many of us are the way we are.

It's for those of us who know better to help educate those that do not know better.

Instead what I see and hear are the so called educated ones lamblasting their own. Many have gone as far as to say that nothing black is good or we hate our own not realising that to say such things is saying we hate ourselves. This in and of itself is tells you that even many of the educated ones suffers from an inferiority complex. To hate our own because of how they see themselves to me says that you think you are above your own ppl.

Blacks are not the only ones with problems, other races have their own problems too, yet I don't hear or see anyone lamblasting them.

[AngelsKiss]

Gonna play Devil's advocate here:

Maybe Blacks are not given the oppurtunity to let go because of their skin colour. After all....the lighter skinned blacks have no problem succeeding. It's mostly the darker ones. Now about the Syrians, Jew and Chinese....they're light skinned(atleast lighter than Blacks) so maybe the White Man look at them as slightly higher than dark-skinned black people...but still inferior to Whites.


These are not necessarily my opinions...but I just want to thrash out the skin colour thing once and for all......
Manu to top it off, blacks are not looked down on by just whites, the other race look down on us too, so we have that added problem to deal with.

Imagine being hated by every race because of who we are, of course many of us are going to feel inferior. The only reason why some of us do not feel that way is because of the education we received, from both our parents and the society that we grew up in and that is the minoirty. Now think of the person who did not get that opportunity and think of them having kids and passing on what they know to those kids. The very same problem perpetuated over and ove,r add to that to what they see in the media and around...eventually becoming a natural part of our society.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

In Jamaica, which is a predominantly black nation, how much of the problems faced today are due to racism and prejudice toward blacks because of their skin colour? Consider that the country is governed by blacks (something which blacks in America would love to experience), we have blacks in positions of authority and wealth in the country, and blacks in good jobs all over the island, and greater integration between people of different descent. What happens in North America and elsewhere isn't necessarily the paradigm here. We haven't gone through many of the things that have happened elsewhere, and we have gone through some things others haven't.

[AngelsKiss]

In Jamaica, which is a predominantly black nation, how much of the problems faced today are due to racism and prejudice toward blacks because of their skin colour? Consider that the country is governed by blacks (something which blacks in America would love to experience), we have blacks in positions of authority and wealth in the country, and blacks in good jobs all over the island, and greater integration between people of different descent. What happens in North America and elsewhere isn't necessarily the paradigm here. We haven't gone through many of the things that have happened elsewhere, and we have gone through some things others haven't.

We have had slavery and years of hearing the same thing over and over that we are inferior. You say we don't have the same problem as the USA, may be not now. However, until the late 1960s we still had a lot of white influence, we were ruled by the British and we only got our independence in 1962.

Like I said before, when you have a group of ppl who were taught that they are inferior to their white counterparts and they inturn teach it to their kids of course it is going to become ingrained in our society.

Then there is the media that keeps portraying blacks in a negative light and also impress on us that being white is good, yes we are going to have similar problems to our North American neighbours.

Take a school like Alpha or Immaculate, in the 60s it was hard for blacks to get into such schools. Many of those schools were managed by whites.

Yes we have a black Prime Minister and when you have some one who ought to know better refering to him as black scandal bag what kind of message do we send to our ppl?

It's the years of learning that we are inferior and the media exposure, combined with the lack of or minimal education that help to perpetuate this problem. Then when we see what is being done to other blacks in other parts of the world of course it is going to affect us too.

[Manu]

Also...remember when PJ was supposed to be elected as Prime Minister....remember what he said? "A Black man time now". This probably won the election for him because people who haven't a clue about politics...and what they're voting for....that one statement could've easily swayed them. He played on the stigma of the "white man"...or "light man" ruling us.....I wonder if Portia or Peter Phillips can use that same line in the next election to get out Bruce? :eusa_thin I've seen worse.....

[Xenocrates]

So it all amounts to education. That's the bottomline. With that much, I will agree.

I still disagree with it being a slavery issue however. My original criticisms stem from a well known psychological phenomenon experienced by darker (and in some cases, merely less fair) races worldwide when they ecountered races with features that were "easier" on the eyes - so to speak. Many of these races never underwent slavery, but the classical signs of inferiority complex were still there. The same kind of behaviour that we blacks have exhibited has been demonstrated by other races with the complex:

Some asian nations have been known to have eyelid and jawbone surgery to make them look more Japanese.


Some Japanese have been known to dye their hair blonde - the women go after the blonde curls


Asians living in America have deliberately interbred with caucasians to produce euroasians like Sharon Sotto, Tila Nyugen and others


Some caucasians have gone and dyed their hair blonde and use blue and green eye contacts to give them the aryan-caucasian experience. "Blondes have more fun" - remember that expression? Doesn't it remind you of the "black versus browning" problem we have in Jamaica? In the United States, it's "Brunette versus Blonde". To my knowledge, Brunettes were never enslaved or racially discriminated against in the US. :rolleyes:


Some caucasian males have had steel rods implanted in their shins to give them that extra height that would make them look more like the aryan-caucasians of Germany, Sweden, Russia, Finland and Holland.


At the very least, black people bleach the colour of their skin...

ALL of these are borne out of an INFERIORITY COMPLEX. However, unlike the blacks, the rest of those races which I mentioned were NOT under slavery. Therefore, I REFUSE to accept that slavery was EVER a contributing factor. I said it once, and I'll say it again:


IT IS HUMAN NATURE

We just have to learn how to curb that thinking. We were born and made with that kind of stigma in our brains. It's not a black people thing - hence we should stop making this about black people. That's why I asked the discussionists to stop getting so hung up on our ethnicity, as if by virtue of being black, that this issue makes us more important. That sounds like egocentric thinking to me. That's what I said before, and that's what I'll say again:

Whether or not racism exists today, the inferiority complex phenomenon cannot be based on slavery and racism if so many other cultures which never underwent slavery or racism, have experienced the same problem.

It is a scientifically unsupportable argument, and thus, is logically fallacious.

[Bahama Mama]

You present alot of good points here Xeno, but selfishness is one of the prime human traits that every race/ethnicity possesses. Most of us are brought up only focusing on our own struggles (as an inidividual and to a lesser extent as a race). How concerned are other races about the quote on quote black struggle, if they have their own struggles to deal with. Why should they be so concerned apart from the effects it has on society as a whole? Why should we be concerned about the struggles of other races, when we are faced with our own? Many blacks who grew up in segragrated America when you had to sit at the back of the bus, and couldnt get served at a diner, or could be killed conversing with a white woman (remember Emmitt Till), may say they in fact had to be hung up on their race, becasue everyone else was hung up on bringing them down beacuse of it.

All of the struggles you mention concerning the other groups are interesting and presents a perspective I never had on race relations, it is in fact not just a black and white thing. But when an individual looks in the mirror they see, either black, white, Asian, etc. and as such there perspective on the social construct we call race is most often times limited.

Just my thoughts.

[AngelsKiss]

Whether or not racism exists today, the inferiority complex phenomenon cannot be based on slavery and racism if so many other cultures which never underwent slavery or racism, have experienced the same problem.

It is a scientifically unsupportable argument, and thus, is logically fallacious.

I am not sure where you got your info from. The Chinese, Japs, Jews and all other non caucasian at some point or the other have all sufferred from racism. All non whites in North America for example are refered to as minorities and most forms you fill in request you state your race.

To say it's a fallacy I suppose is to say that greater minds than you who have researched this problem and recognised that slavery and racism is a factor in many of the problems blacks face today is to say they do not know what they are talking about.

While I do not subscribe to sitting down and blaming all our problems on slavery and racism, I still say it's irresponsible of anyone to say that slavery and racism was and is not a problem for blacks. I suppose Apartheid didn't happen either. I suppose South Africans don't have a problem with racism and I suppose Martin Luther Kings' fight for justice for African Americans was for nothing and that what they faced would not and should not have had an impact on them whatsoever.

[AngelsKiss]

I forgot to mention that we are dealing with human here and after a while for many who are uneducated and I do not necessarily mean book learning. If you tell them something often enough they are going to believe it.

To top it off, when you use something like religion, one of the strongest arguements you can find to convince blacks why they are inferior, yes there are many who will believe.

Blacks where told by their enslavers that the bible says they are suppose to be slaves and that they are inferior and for many that would be a very powerful argument.

The human brain is a very complex thing and it is amazing the way we analyse and even rationalise things at time. Much of it has to do with what we are taught at an early age, our experiences as we go thru life and what we see happening around us.

For example, if you take a dog (much as they do with sheep dogs) and place him with sheep, eventually he thinks of himself as one of them. Human beings are not so different. Yes we are more intelligent than dogs, however, if you keep pounding in them (especially from childhood) enough that they are inferior, it takes a very strong person to see it differently.

[Manu]

Xeno...science can't explain everything you know......the famous "God" thread should've thought you that.;)

As for AK.....I think I agree with you wholeheartedly while subscribing to some of Xeno's points but Xeno needs to appreciate that slavery is a problem for blacks....it may not be for other races....but it is for blacks!

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I think we're straying from the core point of the discussion. Yes, slavery has had far reaching effects on our lives, as have other significant events in earth's history. Yes blacks in America and other countries where they are minorities, are still experiencing forms of oppression and racism because of their African heritage. But we're talking about Jamaica today, not those places.

To say that being black in Jamaica today is a problem, implies that black people in Jamaica are being held down intentionally by others, because of their skin colour. The implication is that there is widespread racism present in Jamaica that makes life difficult for any citizen that is black. The extent to which this is true is what we need to explore.

I personally don't feel that being black in Jamaica is a problem. Yes there are still remnants of racism and colonialism in our society, but I do not think things are at the level where we can atttribute much of the people's hardships on racism. If we talk about classism then we've definitely got big issues there (and in some ways it is linked to the race issue), but we have to be careful to correctly attribute the correct cause to the effects being experienced.

As for messages being sent that black is inferior, I can't honestly say that as a Jamaican I have seen/heard anything that I could construe as an orchestrated plot to make me feel inferior because I am black. Other people may have different experiences. I see a lot of pro-black messages in our reggae music, our politics, our education system, our celebration of our heritage (incidentally, it's festival time again :eusa_danc ) and our religious expression. When I get up in the morning and go about my routine, I don't go about thinking "I'm black, so I'm gonna have problems today". I actually see a lot to be proud of as a black Jamaican each day.

A black Jamaican is the fastest man on the planet in the 100m

A black Jamaican is the first black femal US Coastguard Aviator

Black Jamaicans are doing big things internationally in the entertainment industry.

I see black Jamaicans holding positions of power and authority in business and politics in Jamaica.

I see black Jamaicans from humble beginnings and poor surroundings, uplifting themselves and surviving hardship, to become sucessful.

Sure, I also see a lot of negatives in Jamaica - crime, corruption, poverty. And I realize that to some extent, it can be argued that our history of slavery and colonialism has played it's part in setting things up for those negatives to exist, but I believe that there comes a time, when people need to really understand what is happening, and why it is happening, then do something to recitfy it, and move on with their lives. So many of us seem to get stuck in the "why this is happening mode" and are not using that knowledge to make the future better. Instead it is used as a crutch or an excuse not to do better.

[AngelsKiss]

I personally don't feel that being black in Jamaica is a problem.

Therein lies our problem, many of us will think that because we do not have a problem that others don't or should not.

Oh and before you think I mean you specifically let me state it clearly that this is not the case.

[Xenocrates]

Therein lies our problem, many of us will think that because we do not have a problem that others don't or should not.

- Is it really that or is it that we choose to look at the issue from a more wholistic perspective? I could've easily said that these people make themselves a problem where there really isn't any. In fact, if you ask me, I'd have to agree with BlackCryptoKnight: I don't see this as a problem in a black society. I see bad-mind.

Consider the case of two girls who grew up as friends, but became bitter enemies when they both sprouted breasts, butts, hips and legs. When these two girls have a problem with each other, where the darker one hates the fairer one because the fairer one draws more male attention than the darker one, is this a product of racism, slavery and the rest of that, or is this a simple case of BAD MIND?

When Lisa20 started this thread, I saw all of the SAME WARNING SIGNS.

Too many of us are getting divided over nonsense. We make up this high winded bit of an excuse blaming our subtle ethnic differences, when in fact all that we're doing in most cases is seeking a scapegoat for our problems. Instead of looking deep within ourselves for logical answers, we blame the shade of our skin and our checkered past. Did these two girls need to dislike each other because one was fairer?


Is this racism or jealousy?

Anyday I start thinking like that, I'd have to stop talking to a good number of my friends, who were unfortunate enough to be lighter in complexion than most people around us. This is the thinking of a dangerous mind. This is the kind of nonsense that creates a divide between black people. If both girls went to the United States, the Americans would not differentiate them.


Is it really that hard to admit that we sometimes get insecure?

Circumstances and differential breeding gave both girls different shades in the colour of their skin - Yet they both ended up hating each other's guts although they were both black in ethnicity. Can you not see the obvious effect this kind of discussion has on our thinking? Is it really that hard to see that merely bringing this up has NOTHING to do with slavery, racism or who died for what - but our OWN insecurities?

Is it really that hard to see why Lisa20's postulate is a DANGEROUS kind of poison that will only drive black people away from each other?

I reiterate one last time: This has nothing to do with slavery. Nothing whatsoever. Not one bit. This is not a black person hating a white person or vice versa.

This is a black person hating a black person because they have a fairer complexion.

If black people weren't so bad mind of one another in the first place, this very thread wouldn't exist. Sometimes we really do behave like crabs in a barrel.

Think about it.

[AngelsKiss]

- Is it really that or is it that we choose to look at the issue from a more wholistic perspective? I could've easily said that these people make themselves a problem where there really isn't any. In fact, if you ask me, I'd have to agree with BlackCryptoKnight: I don't see this as a problem in a black society. I see bad-mind.

Consider the case of two girls who grew up as friends, but became bitter enemies when they both sprouted breasts, butts, hips and legs. When these two girls have a problem with each other, where the darker one hates the fairer one because the fairer one draws more male attention than the darker one, is this a product of racism, slavery and the rest of that, or is this a simple case of BAD MIND?

When Lisa20 started this thread, I saw all of the SAME WARNING SIGNS.

Too many of us are getting divided over nonsense. We make up this high winded bit of an excuse blaming our subtle ethnic differences, when in fact all that we're doing in most cases is seeking a scapegoat for our problems. Instead of looking deep within ourselves for logical answers, we blame the shade of our skin and our checkered past. Did these two girls need to dislike each other because one was fairer?


Is this racism or jealousy?

Anyday I start thinking like that, I'd have to stop talking to a good number of my friends, who were unfortunate enough to be lighter in complexion than most people around us. This is the thinking of a dangerous mind. This is the kind of nonsense that creates a divide between black people. If both girls went to the United States, the Americans would not differentiate them.


Is it really that hard to admit that we sometimes get insecure?

Circumstances and differential breeding gave both girls different shades in the colour of their skin - Yet they both ended up hating each other's guts although they were both black in ethnicity. Can you not see the obvious effect this kind of discussion has on our thinking? Is it really that hard to see that merely bringing this up has NOTHING to do with slavery, racism or who died for what - but our OWN insecurities?

Is it really that hard to see why Lisa20's postulate is a DANGEROUS kind of poison that will only drive black people away from each other?

I reiterate one last time: This has nothing to do with slavery. Nothing whatsoever. Not one bit. This is not a black person hating a white person or vice versa.

This is a black person hating a black person because they have a fairer complexion.

If black people weren't so bad mind of one another in the first place, this very thread wouldn't exist. Sometimes we really do behave like crabs in a barrel.

Think about it.


Actually I don't need to think about it. Like I said before too many of us are too willing to see the negative in each other and call each other on it. These problems you talk about happens in every kind of society and race, not just with black people so to me I do not see the point that is being made here with regards to blacks.

I can see however, how slavery and racism will cause people to think they are less than. Just today I saw a lil white baby and I was playing with him. I said to my friend it goes to show that we are not born with hatred for some one simply because of their skin colour, it is something we learn.

Lisa starting this topic is not a bad thing and for me it actually brings to light the way some of us think of our own people. It in facts sadden me that we can lambast each other the way we do. It saddens me that we seems to think blacks are the only ones with bad attitudes.

People are people where ever you go, you have the good and the bad and I DO NOT see us as being any worst than any other race. What I see is a group of people who have been badly treated over the years by other race and who are having a difficult time raising themselves up out of the mental and real life struggles they face every day. We may not face significant racism in Jamaica but we are constantly being bombarded with the international media in a negative way. This in and of itself causes many not to see them selves in a postitive light.

Again I will say too many of us are too willing to put down our own kind and that deeply saddens and hurt me. I am sorry you or others cannot or refuse to understand what I am trying to say here!

[Xenocrates]

These problems you talk about happens in every kind of society and race, not just with black people...

- Hun, that's exactly my point.


...so to me I do not see the point that is being made here with regards to blacks.

- See previous comment.


...too many of us are too willing to put down our own kind...

- Is it a putdown when we call insecurity, insecurity? All I'm saying is that it is driving a wedge between black people, instead of uniting them. This is not a Black vs. White problem. This is a Black vs. Black problem. Black people have to be willing to identify their own problems in order to overcome them. Once we get to that stage where we can be truly honest with ourselves, our problems have already been half-defeated.

Lisa20's concerns are not between blacks and whites. It's between blacks of differing complexions. I don't see how that kind of contrasting is even remotely beneficial for a black society. In fact, I see that as being self-destructive. It's a social implosion just waiting to happen. When it does, the non-black folks will take over what's left. This is what I'm afraid of. It has already begun, and this kind of thinking will only expedite the inevitability of such a social catastrophe.

[AngelsKiss]

- Is it a putdown when we call insecurity, insecurity? .

This was not the comment I was refering to when I mentioned the fact that we put down each other. In fact I was refering to earlier comments. I would suggest you refer back to some of the earlier post made by you and others which IMO were very harsh and came across as if Black ppl are worst than other groups.

[Xenocrates]

That would seem to insinuate that I hate my own kind wouldn't it? But it has to be said! You have to forgive me for seeming harsh; but I'd rather call a spade a spade than pretend it was a heart. I find that this kind of thinking creates more problems for black folks than it solves. As such, this thinking is making black people become racists against their own kind, when in truth we are only insecure about each other's physical attributes. It makes me angry when black people bill insecurity as something racially related. It's like we are using the colour of our skin to claim for disability allowance. - just like we do all of our other problems that we blindly blame on the Government - which WE voted for... :rolleyes:

To me, that is ignorance, and ignorance cannot be treated subtly. If that makes me seem like I hate my own kind, then that's too bad. I call that a failure on my part in opening the eyes of the lot, or is it an unwillingness of the lot to open their eyes? Either way, I'll deal with it. ;)

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Therein lies our problem, many of us will think that because we do not have a problem that others don't or should not.


Nobody is doubting that there are problems out there. What is being questioned is the extent of those problems, and the true causes of those problems.

It is very easy to blame racism for problems faced. The truth is, that many people opt to do this rather than face the real issues.

[Manu]

This was not the comment I was refering to when I mentioned the fact that we put down each other. In fact I was refering to earlier comments. I would suggest you refer back to some of the earlier post made by you and others which IMO were very harsh and came across as if Black ppl are worst than other groups.


Um....again I agree with AK. Xeno....you yourself said you "hate black people". You are "fair-skinned" are you not? Don't you discriminate against people who seek attention of "high colour" people instead of pitying her ignorance. What AK is trying to say( I hope I read it correctly)....that it is the same slavery mentality which cause Jamaicans to act the way do. Mullatoes...eventhough they were black, they looked down upon the darker africans. They didn't believe they were black. This mentality has been taught from generation to generation and it is not something that we can just "get over". Maybe you have never faced discrimination because you yourself are not dark so you'll continue to say that it is nothing more than "badmind".

Your examples about the two girls goes much deeper than mere jealousy and badmind Xeno. It's a mindset. She has been taught by society and her parents that black is inferior. Simple "black beauty" poems by Maya Angelou can't erase 400+ years of racial discrimination. We don't badmind people because of their skin colour Xeno. That's an assinine(got to use it) approach. Don't be offended now, but you can't call someone's insecurity badmind. An insecurity which is caused by discrimination from society. A society that was molded by the white man. We still use their system to govern our country. Their rules. Our ancestors (African) are taught to be wild, uncivilised savages and the white man, made us advanced. Now the lighter colour people may claim that their ancestors are European, (something witnessed at UWI) but they don't really mention their African decent. Why is that? Because their ashamed of it? What about the really dark persons who can't claim such lineage (eventhough it may be evident genotypically) because they don't show the phenotypes of having white lineage. Come on Xeno....come on Xeno....badmind? Pulease......
wheel and come again.

[Xenocrates]

My dear friend Manu :icon_mrgr

I am fair skinned? LMAO http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/xenocrates/Smilies/rofl.gif

Dude, that's funny! :eusa_clap

I'll let:

AngelsKiss
Cocoa
Liquid Bunny
Mitchie
Chris
Arch_Angel
Drew
Gillion
RobyG (if you can find him)
Malloc-X


...all tell you what I look like. You will be SO EMBARASSED, that nothing I say will make you feel even more embarassed about what you've just written. As such, I'll let you ask them what I look like. I won't even direct them to this thread. That would be presumptious of me. Send them a private message and let them describe to you what Xeno looks like. When you're done, feel free to come back to this thread and tell us how you feel.

It is for this reason, that I deliberately did not post a picture of myself in the Official CY Picture thread. It's so easy for people to form these ludicrous images in their head from some text. I find it incredibly amusing. :rotflm: For some strange reason, I get a kick out of people publicly exposing their insecurities online - for the whole world to see. There are times I think I'm too smart for my own good.

Hey, BlackCryptoKnight, a yute on TechJamaica once met me at my house for Anime. You know what the yute said to me?


"I THOUGHT YOU WERE WHITE!"

If that doesn't drive home my point more than anything else, NOTHING else will. You guys assume that I reason the way I do because I'm either white or fair skinned. What are you guys saying? That a black person can't reason the way I do? It's like I've been saying from I first started to participate in this thread:


IT IS AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX

Not slavery, not racism or any of those frequently used excuses that black folks love to harp on.

Thanks for proving my point Manu. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/xenocrates/Smilies/2thumbs.gif

I owe you a beer. :dwl:

[Manu]

Um....no Xeno....I didn't assume your skin colour based on your posts. I know you cousin....and I've seen a picture of your bro....so that's why I thought what I thought....

If I'm wrong....I'm wrong...no big deal. But dude....you are very much into european culture....and not into much black culture...... Maybe you are an Oreo ;)

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Maybe you are an Oreo ;)
That's not necessary. Let's keep the discussion on topic and not let it degenerate into a name calling match.

[Manu]

I'm just poking fun at Xeno....no ill feelings. None whatsoever. I was alluding to the fact that some dude thought he was white....that why I said that.....sorry :(

[AngelsKiss]

Um....again I agree with AK. Xeno....you yourself said you "hate black people". You are "fair-skinned" are you not? Don't you discriminate against people who seek attention of "high colour" people instead of pitying her ignorance. What AK is trying to say( I hope I read it correctly)....that it is the same slavery mentality which cause Jamaicans to act the way do. Mullatoes...eventhough they were black, they looked down upon the darker africans. They didn't believe they were black. This mentality has been taught from generation to generation and it is not something that we can just "get over". Maybe you have never faced discrimination because you yourself are not dark so you'll continue to say that it is nothing more than "badmind".

Your examples about the two girls goes much deeper than mere jealousy and badmind Xeno. It's a mindset. She has been taught by society and her parents that black is inferior. Simple "black beauty" poems by Maya Angelou can't erase 400+ years of racial discrimination. We don't badmind people because of their skin colour Xeno. That's an assinine(got to use it) approach. Don't be offended now, but you can't call someone's insecurity badmind. An insecurity which is caused by discrimination from society. A society that was molded by the white man. We still use their system to govern our country. Their rules. Our ancestors (African) are taught to be wild, uncivilised savages and the white man, made us advanced. Now the lighter colour people may claim that their ancestors are European, (something witnessed at UWI) but they don't really mention their African decent. Why is that? Because their ashamed of it? What about the really dark persons who can't claim such lineage (eventhough it may be evident genotypically) because they don't show the phenotypes of having white lineage. Come on Xeno....come on Xeno....badmind? Pulease......
wheel and come again.


Manu you understood perfectly what I have been saying. I will go further to say that not did you understood it, I see you have been paying attention to the other post and threads and comments made. I also think you are seeing and picking up a lot of what others have either missed or ignored!


Nobody is doubting that there are problems out there. What is being questioned is the extent of those problems, and the true causes of those problems.

It is very easy to blame racism for problems faced. The truth is, that many people opt to do this rather than face the real issues.

Yes I agree that some ppl will opt for the easy way but I doubt that the majority do. What you need to undersand is how deeply ingrained this inferiority complex is in the minds of black people as a result of slavery and racism. I will go as far as to say that not only is this a problem for blacks. I have also come to realise that most whites suffer from what is the opposite thinking to to black people and that is, they think themselves superior to us. Even when they are not racist, in their subconscious it is ingrained that they are superior. This point was actually proven to me by a white writer.

It's unfortunate that I can not remember his name so I could find the article. However I will try to explain it as best as I possible can.

He wrote an article last year explaining that he went to give a speech and on his arrival there was another speaker a well known black speaker. Now this white speaker is by no means racist, in fact he is a liberal speaker who speaks out about the injustice in the world. He said that while siting on the stage waiting for his turn to speak he said he was amazed at the eloquence of this man. Upon careful examination he realised why he was amazed. Somewhere deep in his subconsious he had always thought himself superior to black people. This was the first time he was realising it and he was shock and very unhappy that he even had these feelings way down deep.

He also went on to explain that this was as a result of the society and what was handed down from the days of slavery. To make a long story short, he and the black writer ended up travelling together after the event and in talking with the black guy he realised what humble person he was. While in his state of embarrassment and shock that he could ever have such thoughts he said he felt he had to tell the black speaker about what he thought and to appologise for it. The result was that the black guy was very cool about the entire thing.

Now I wrote this to explain that what blacks in Jamaica and in the world in general feel is deeply and psychological ingrained. It's not that most of them want to play the race card. In fact I will go on to say that to me the Jews at every opportunity appears to play the race card.

I will also tell you that I have heard my fellow Jamaicans right here in Canada claim that they do not want to live where too many blacks are because of how blacks are perceived. When we say things like that we do not reliased that we are perpetuating the same things that other race say about us.

It is an unfortunate situation where by too often our own people are not educated enough to understand what it is they do and say and to lift themselves up, to value themselves as a people. Again I will say that being educated is not necessarily about book learning. It's more about what is happening in the world and around us.

In fact what I see are people who are more caught up in what is the latest faashion, who can drive the biggest car or own the biggest house. I also see people who can tell you what happens in Hollywood but have no clue to what goes on in Africa.

I talk with people who tell me that they have no interest in politics or world affairs but they find topics like whether Katie Holmes and Tom Pitt or Cruise or whatever his name is will actually get married or stay married.

I will say I have no problem with people wanting to read about celebs and other entertainment news. However I find all too often it is not balanced out by an interest in things that should be of concerned to us. Yet they are the very same people who will comment about our own in a negative way.

For me this way of thinking and life style is so bad that I personally do not want to pick up the phone to some of my friends. I do not want to talk about the latest fashion. I do not want to talk about who is doing whom and I certainly do not want to talk about whether some movie star's marriage is going to last or fail.

You want to talk with me, let us talk about how we can help educate our people. Let's talk about the Rwanda crisises where 800,000 Rwandans died and most of the world was and still seems to be unaware or do not care enough about what took place.

Let's talk about the fact that in Africa every 3 second a child dies from extreme poverty and lets talk about the fact that we need to find away to educate Jamaicans on why they should love themselves.

Let us stop and think of possitive ways we can communicate with each other. Let us stop the arrogant and condecending attitude and then claim that it's because we are too brilliant for our own good. Or to claim that it's because others feel inferior which is why they think the way they do.

From some of the comments, what I see is not brilliance, what I see are people who think them selves above others and no it's not because I feel inferior. I have no reason to feel inferior. I grew up exposed to 2 different cultures and I have experience racism from both sides of the fence, yet it does not bother me. It does not bother me because I was very lucky to have a mother who ingrained in me from a very early age to be independent and to think for myself.

I am not a person who is easily impressed by anyone worst when people behave in an arrogant, rude and condescending manner. I am not impress by weath, power or people who think they are so educated that they are above others.

The people that impress me are the people who understood that we were put here for a purpose that goes beyond money, status and education. I am impress by the Mandelas of this world, the Martin Luther Kings. These are the people who have taken it up on themselves to fight for a cause and while doing so never put down their own in anyway shape or form. In fact they placed their lives on the line so that people like you and me can survive in today's world.

These are the people who took the time to understand the problems black people faced and to try to educate them in a gentle and possitve way. I am even impress with Bono of U2 who has used his celebrity status to continuously speak out against poverty. Even Bill Gates whom many like to hate has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in Africa to help fight poverty and the diseases that continue to plague our people. These are the people that I want to hear about.

So for those of us that like to boost ourselves and tell ourselves of how brilliant we are maybe we should stop and ask ourselves instead, how did I use my brilliance yesterday and how will I use it today and tomorrow to benefit some one else. How can I use it to help our people instead of talking negatively and talking down to them.

Let us remember that we are all humans and we all make mistake. We gain nothing by rubbing each other's mistakes in their face or making snide and hurtful comments about it. Again I will say it's the people that showed humility that usually makes the greatest possitive impact...Nelson Mandela, and Martin Luther King are typical examples.

Finally, let us remember that as a black person every time we say we hate black people it says that we either hate ourselves or we think we are above the rest. It also makes us look stupid and selfhating when we as black people say we hate each other.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Yes I agree that some ppl will opt for the easy way but I doubt that the majority do. What you need to undersand is how deeply ingrained this inferiority complex is in the minds of black people as a result of slavery and racism. I will go as far as to say that not only is this a problem for blacks. I have also come to realise that most whites suffer from what is the opposite thinking to to black people and that is, they think themselves superior to us. Even when they are not racist, in their subconscious it is ingrained that they are superior.

I am well aware of this AK. The atrocities of the past have lead many to view the world in a way that limits us.


Now I wrote this to explain that what blacks in Jamaica and in the world in general feel is deeply and psychological ingrained. It's not that most of them want to play the race card. In fact I will go on to say that to me the Jews at every opportunity appears to play the race card.

What I am questioning is the exact nature of those feelings and the extent to which they are present across the island. It is my observation that Jamaicans are very proud of their heritage and their culture and have a strong sense of cultural and national identity. I don't see where the race issue is as big a problem here as it is elsewhere.


I will also tell you that I have heard my fellow Jamaicans right here in Canada claim that they do not want to live where too many blacks are because of how blacks are perceived. When we say things like that we do not reliased that we are perpetuating the same things that other race say about us.
Unfortunately, in North America, many times the "black" neighbourhoods, happen to be the less desirable ones in terms of poverty, crime etc. That is unfair, and a direct result of the slavery/racism issue. I see nothing wrong if black people don't want to live in environments like that. If the "black" schools are underfunded and ill equipped, I see nothing wrong if black parents want to send there black children to better schools where there are better facillities - even if it is a "white" school. It's only fair that the black children get the best too.

It is also a fact that there are some black people who behave in ways which are just wrong - just as there are white people who do the same. I see nothing wrong if some black people chose not to expose themselves to environments where those kinds of people are.

The reality of the situation is, that slavery and racism have had deep far reaching effects. There are black people who have developed negative attitudes and traits because of it, and in turn perpetuate a negative view for all black people. Yes, it is our duty to help them, educate them and encourage them, but that doesn't mean that we have to subscribe to the same bahaviours as them.

When Caribbean people migrate to North America, there is sometimes tension between them and the blacks there because of the differences in attitude toward the race issue. One side feels the other isn't "down" with the struggle enough, and the other feels that people need to "move on" and not dwell on the past. It's tragic because there is much we can learn from each other.

The purpose of us knowing our history is so that we know ourselves and are equipped to avoid the mistakes made in the past. Once we have that, there is no need to focus on the negiatves of the past. We can move on with our lives. I am aware that I am black, but being black is not what defines me. I am an individual person first and foremost. When God comes to hold each man to account for his/her life, a persons race will not be an issue, nor will all there knowledge of racial history. They will have to give an account of how well they lived their lives according to God's word.

In my view, that is what we should be focusing on - living our lives righteously.

[Xenocrates]

:icon_arro Manu

No harm, no foul. No offense taken. I actually laughed. Understanding your personality more allows me to appreciate your comments even more so. :icon_mrgr

:icon_arro AK

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. Otherwise we'll be going back 'n forth ad infinitum until it gets out of hand.

:icon_arro Everyone

I can see where this discussion is hitting emotional chords with people, and I don't want us to start hating each other for our differing opinions. I can even see where my own words are being taken out of context to deliberately construe a diabolical kind of personality. If I will be billed as a self-loathing, oreo-eating, egocentric, passive-agressive, black-h8r, then so let me be damned. Deviant thinking, I have learned long ago, will always be unwelcome. I have grown to accept that, which makes this very easy for me to do.

It is not because of my affinity for a type of music, or any of that other stuff which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. At least I now know how I am perceived. While that is sad, I am not offended by it and it doesn't change my positive opinions of those who insinuated it. It's a natural emotional response to feeling jabbed - even though no jabbing took place. As I understand that, it makes little sense continuing this discussion, since I fear it will only get more emotional and denegrate into something worse. I would rather preserve whatever amicability remains between us as a group, than continue this campaigne. It is more profitable to bow out in consideration for the feelings of my fellow man, than to allow this discussion to become personal. I realise that it is becoming increasingly harder for our panelists to remain impersonal about our opinions.

This is why I like having emotionless discussions; because I think it's a great avenue for us to learn from one another without getting offended. I now see that this issue is a bit too close to home for some folk to free their minds. When emotions become stirred in such debates, there's a very thin line between being offensive, and speaking the hard, cold truth. I can only imagine how those guys in the True Nature of God thread felt, when I burst a few bubbles. It can't be a good feeling, I know. But it doesn't mean we have to take it personally. Some truths are too dangerous for some minds. I guess that's why people believe that I'm a self-loathing individual. I am a person who is more willing to accept a hard cold fact than to believe a half-truth that would make me feel better. I prefer hard cold truth, and not sugar-coated versions of it. As such my opinion remains unphased and unchanged. I won't retract anything I said earlier. I would rather be hated for speaking a hard cold fact, than be a double-minded person who is unsettled in his convictions.

Never-the-less, let me take this opportunity to remind us all, that in the end, we're all still friends here. Even if we don't see eye to eye on some issues, it doesn't mean we have to become disconnected. Either way, thanks for the discussion. I really enjoyed it.

Cheers mon amis :eusa_clap

[Xenocrates]

When Caribbean people migrate to North America, there is sometimes tension between them and the blacks there because of the differences in attitude toward the race issue. One side feels the other isn't "down" with the struggle enough, and the other feels that people need to "move on" and not dwell on the past. It's tragic because there is much we can learn from each other.

- I think this is a fundamental issue here.


The purpose of us knowing our history is so that we know ourselves and are equipped to avoid the mistakes made in the past. Once we have that, there is no need to focus on the negiatves of the past. We can move on with our lives. I am aware that I am black, but being black is not what defines me. I am an individual person first and foremost. When God comes to hold each man to account for his/her life, a persons race will not be an issue, nor will all there knowledge of racial history. They will have to give an account of how well they lived their lives according to God's word.

- I could not have said it better myself. :eusa_clap

[AngelsKiss]

This is why I like having emotionless discussions; because I think it's a great avenue for us to learn from one another without getting offended. I now see that this issue is a bit too close to home for some folk to free their minds. When emotions become stirred in such debates, there's a very thin line between being offensive, and speaking the hard, cold truth. I can only imagine how those guys in the True Nature of God thread felt, when I burst a few bubbles. It can't be a good feeling, I know. But it doesn't mean we have to take it personally. Some truths are too dangerous for some minds. I guess that's why people believe that I'm a self-loathing individual. I am a person who is more willing to accept a hard cold fact than to believe a half-truth that would make me feel better. I prefer hard cold truth, and not sugar-coated versions of it. As such my opinion remains unphased and unchanged. I won't retract anything I said earlier. I would rather be hated for speaking a hard cold fact, than be a double-minded person who is unsettled in his convictions.

Never-the-less, let me take this opportunity to remind us all, that in the end, we're all still friends here. Even if we don't see eye to eye on some issues, it doesn't mean we have to become disconnected. Either way, thanks for the discussion. I really enjoyed it.

Cheers mon amis :eusa_clap

It is funny that you would mention that you like having an emotionless discussion yet you also say in the same breath that you would rather be hated for speaking the a cold hard fact.

First I ask, what makes you think your opinion is fact and others not?

Secondly why would you need to think that you would be hated for speaking what you term a cold hard fact? I do not see anyone on here preaching hate, in fact it is the exact opposite to that, I and many others are speaking about. It is about how we communicate with others thats also an issue here.

I doubt we have any one on here who is stupid enough to hate you for your opinions, because that is what they are your opinions. You may call them a fact but to me they are just your opinions, just like how what I have to say are my opinions. I wouldn't even think that I would be hated for my opinions and if any one did then, that's their porblem to beging with.

This discussion isn't even to say that we do not recognised that blacks/Jamaicans need to raise them selves above the issue of slavery and racism. It is to say that we need to understand why they feel the way they do and why they behave the way they do. It's also to say that we that know better should take it up on ourselves to help teach them what is right.

I decided to join in this discussion when I read some of what is being posted. When people say they should just get over it or that slavery and racism have nothing to do with why Jamaicans see themselves the way they do in my opinion is misquided. I think I am entitle to my opinions.

As for ppl taking things out of context I think it goes both ways and I don't think any one here does so to hurt anyone. If it happens I think it is a genuine mistake.

Again I will say how we express ourselves can make all the difference in the world, it also gives the reader an impression of the kind of person we are. Hence the reason I caution us all to think careful of what we say and how we say it.

As you said we can agree to disagree and I have no problems with that. That is life, we live and we learn from each other or we may not learn anything and that is ok too.

[AngelsKiss]

The purpose of us knowing our history is so that we know ourselves and are equipped to avoid the mistakes made in the past. Once we have that, there is no need to focus on the negiatves of the past. We can move on with our lives. I am aware that I am black, but being black is not what defines me. I am an individual person first and foremost. When God comes to hold each man to account for his/her life, a persons race will not be an issue, nor will all there knowledge of racial history. They will have to give an account of how well they lived their lives according to God's word.

In my view, that is what we should be focusing on - living our lives righteously.

BCK you may know yourself and who you are but the problem lies in the fact that too many of us do not know who we are or understand our history or even how it impacts us. That is why they are still caught up in slavery and racism and why it affects them so deeply. That is why they can not move on with their lives and that is why I say we that know better have to help to educate them.

It is not unlike some people who are caught up in the material things of the world thinking that the way to happiness is through such items. They have not come to the understanding that true happiness comes from deep within.

[Manu]

Um....I have no hard feeling against anyone. I take nothing personal....nothing at all. Been there...done that...got the T-shirt. Sorry if stating your eclectic tastes in music and culture was perceived to be a shot at you. It wasn't. Just fuel for my posting arsenal. Anyways...don't stop the discussion now......how can be have two facts with contrasting views? As Nigelt would say, "Which is the absolute truth?"

[BlackCryptoKnight]

BCK you may know yourself and who you are but the problem lies in the fact that too many of us do not know who we are or understand our history or even how it impacts us.That is why they are still caught up in slavery and racism and why it affects them so deeply. That is why they can not move on with their lives and that is why I say we that know better have to help to educate them.
I hear ya. Where our opinions may differ then, is the extent to which what you just posted is true in Jamaica. I believe that for the most part, Jamaican's have moved on with their lives and have a good understanding of their history, and who they are.

[AngelsKiss]

I hear ya. Where our opinions may differ then, is the extent to which what you just posted is true in Jamaica. I believe that for the most part, Jamaican's have moved on with their lives and have a good understanding of their history, and who they are.

Precisely, we do disagree on that and nothing wrong with it right?:)

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Precisely, we do disagree on that and nothing wrong with it right?:)

No worries. It's likely that we just see two different sides of the same coin. Besides, I was starting to get worried 'cause it was beginning to look like we were agreeing on too many things. Felt kinda weird. ;)

[AngelsKiss]

No worries. It's likely that we just see two different sides of the same coin. Besides, I was starting to get worried 'cause it was beginning to look like we were agreeing on too many things. Felt kinda weird. ;)
Clown...you just want someone to argue with :icon_mrgr

Ok here is what I will do, in future I will take the opposite side to anything you say even if I agree :) I do it sometimes to certain person on here only they don't know :)

[Manu]

Clown...you just want someone to argue with :icon_mrgr

Ok here is what I will do, in future I will take the opposite side to anything you say even if I agree :) I do it sometimes to certain person on here only they don't know :)
:eusa_sile :eusa_whis


An antagonist....thats what you are :eusa_naug

[AngelsKiss]

:eusa_sile :eusa_whis


An antagonist....thats what you are :eusa_naug
I wonder who is on MSN that is always egging me on in my quest for mischieve? Even when I am not being mischievous I wonder who comes knocking on my screen to create mischieve? ;)

We digress...lets get back to the topic altho I think it has been flogged to death :D

[Manu]

I wonder who is on MSN that is always egging me on in my quest for mischieve? Even when I am not being mischievous I wonder who comes knocking on my screen to create mischieve? ;)

We digress...lets get back to the topic altho I think it has been flogged to death :D

What? Who are you talking about....I haven't the slightest clue :eusa_liar

He he he....didn't know I had such an influence over ya ;)

We need more views.....external......we've heard enough of me, Xeno, BCK and AK. Maybe some more Bahama Mama, Kimberly(eventhough she swear blind seh not responding to this thread again) and others........

[Leina]

Now i had to search for this thread. I have a question for all you brown girls (the brownings), i was informed that you people are not into black men, you prefer men of your own colouring. How true is that?