Is there a problem being black and living in Jamaica? [Archive] - Caribbean Online Community ~ CaribYard.com

Lisa20

April 11, 2005, 06:43 PM

Good post!!

This is called a salves mentality anything too dark isn't good :( sad sad sad it is. First off have you ever taken a close look at the JAMAICAN beauty pagents? It's usually very fare skinned-could pass for white girls that are winning the title of MISS JAMAICA; They in my opinion do not represent the majority of Jamaicans who are darker skinned. That to me is sending the wrong message, and that is why you get women bleaching out the skin to be seen as beautiful which is SAD :confused:

I agree with you, but i think that the main reason why women bleach is because of the growing increase in jamaican men prefering browning.

When a guy can take home a Brown, indian, chiney or some one who i mixed with white to mama and she accepts her, however, if he ever tries to take a black girl home its like opening up pandora box even if she is loaded(money) This remind me of the play that i did in high school called "Old Story Time" where the son took home a black woman that his mother didnot approve of and she went as far as obeah to try an get rid of the woman c\because of the colour of her skin.

"Look not upon me, because I am black,
because the sun hath looked upon me:
my mother's children were angry with me;
they made me the keeper of the vineyards;
but mine own vineyard have I not kept. "

The colour of the skin has a lot to do with Black Women's position in society.
Blak women should be proud of there colour cause theirs is a unique one. The only skin tone where a small amount of persons have developed skin cancer.
The bible says: Iam black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem,
as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.

I believe that when our men start to respect themselves as Proud Black men, they will surely respect our Strong Black women.

This is my opinion. :eusa_thin

nuhsenutten

April 11, 2005, 07:01 PM

Lisa20

April 12, 2005, 01:15 PM

me personally i dont descriminate........its ur personality that counts casue no matter what ur color if ur personality not good me and u not gonna make it as friends...........................some ppl in jamaica have that mentality not all......keep that in mind

If you say so...........well the majority of u guys do discriminate against women. This has been going on for years from as early as in the bible days. If we try to make the changes now we can look forward to new generation of young men that we can be proud of.

Lisa20

April 12, 2005, 07:47 PM

So why did you discriminate???? Was it because your parents and siblings made the remarks or was it because of the popularity status it provided you with?

Right now i would like some one to please answer the question. Is there a problem with being Black and living in a country where the majority of the population is Black.

Or, do we as a people, intend to let the racial prejudice divide us like it in did in trinidad?

I surely hope that wont happen.

Gillion

April 12, 2005, 08:03 PM

Lisa20 describe the kind of man you like ?

Gillion

April 12, 2005, 08:09 PM

I wrote this for another site so bear with me

I notice on dese here forums dat di bleachin problem leave yard and gone abroad... so let me just give a little perspective on dis wicked ting.

Now Dis whole bleaching thing is comming from colonial days especially after slavery. It was not uncommon for a White man especially wealthy merchants and sailors to take a "BROWN/Light" skin wife. The famous Mary Secole is a product of such a union. She wouldn't have gotten as far as she did in victorian era england if she wans't mulato.

Thus other Jamaican females instinctively, from a historical perspective, began to promote the concept of lightening the skin tone of their daughters so that they will "have a better chance" in life ESPECIALLY at getting married to a "nice white or brown man".

At the same time, these Mothers instinctively told their sons to "step up" and only marry a light skin woman so that his children will "come out nice and brown with pretty hair and skin".

A vicious circle was born.

So what we had was, men with a predisposition to "brownins" and women with a desire to be brown so as to compete for BETTER financial oppoertunities.

I say finanacial, because only the mulato boys and girls had the money to go to school, live fine lives and had the better clothes. These mulato kids were the offspring of White Black Unions or White Brown Unions... because White men had a thing for black women in JA.

However this whole brown skin thing died down for a while until... Buju Banton... REALLY SCREWED THE POOCH with his song "Mi love mi Brownin"

He had to quickly make a song about "Love mi Black Woman" It didn't take... the damage was done. Girls realised that popularity was ensured for the BROWN girls that went to better schools and universities. Had good jobs and had their pick of the littler when it comes to men.

Even "Carlene the Dance Hall Queen" aggravated the problem because her sister.. "Pinky" a DARKER skin girl was not as popular as her. This overweight brown girl was able to make a living wearing dance hall clothes and dancing at "big parties" all because of her skin. Thats all these young girls saw.

So in the end, we get a whole dimension of problem that has its roots in ECONOMICS and SELF HATE.

If you are the daughter or a middle class or wealthy family, chances are you won't have to be in the sun to work and help your mother sell yam at the market. Thusly, your skin wont be "darkened".

Then there are other aspects such as you are more likely to know your Father. Chances are you will get the oppertunity to go to school and not the ****ty schools either... a TRADITIONAL school like IMMACULATE.

Chances are, you won't have a hard life in general and so you wont show the stresses of life on your face (like knife cuts), your voice will be softer, your walk will be nicer, your hair will be better looked after and will grow long instead of breaking as a result of stress.

Chances are, if you look more "DAINTY" and thats the key word here and more FEMININ you will be able to get a "better man" as opposed to the "thugs" you grew up with.

So in being covetious, these girls have created a self hate pattern and perpetuate it in their friends and kids... because they really do not see the world as being fair and even.

--gillion

Gillion

April 12, 2005, 08:15 PM

You know... "kinky" hair as some would call it. Is a result of adaptation to a HOT arid environment. A typically AFRICAN environment. Many African women do the smart thing and blad their heads or simply cut the hair low. But because we in the west are eurofied, we can't do that, nor do we wish to. Afterall most women take pride in the length of their hair.

Especially women of African ancestry.

Why ? because its alot harder to work on than for other Ethnicities.... and because we have more styles available to us that will look good and hold.

I was once asked why GOD gave everyone else straight hair and black women got the kinky hair.

My answer... because GOD knows whats best for you !

Besides... your hair is multi talented.... it can do MORE things than for other races... she doan see it my way yet.

Anyway, my point is that the processing of hair (frying) is necessary to cope with large wooly hair growth which is something that is very Eurocentric.

Did you know Lots of hair ensures a WARM SKULL... something necessary in places that have COLD COLD WINTERS ? Did you also know that most of the body heat you loose is from the top of your head... whoda thunk !!

I can't tell how many times I hear my female friends complain about them long hair (natural or braid extensions ) making their head HOT ... I just laugh.

--gillion

Gillion

April 12, 2005, 08:19 PM

I know alot o the posts don't fit it was written for another forum... but it should be useful here

Lisa20

April 12, 2005, 08:55 PM

Lisa20 describe the kind of man you like ?

It doesn't matter his colour as long as he is kind, caring, loving, dependable, honest and respectful

Bahama Mama

April 12, 2005, 09:06 PM

Lisa to quote James Brown, "Stand tall. I am black and I am proud".

A college friend of mine who is of a very dark complexion, once told me that her grandmother told her not to bring home any dark skinned man, and you know she never had a dark skinned boyfriend to my recollection. Such foolishness to instill in kids, which is to essentially hate yourself. Black pride begins at home, and many people screw this foolishness into their kids heads from an early age, so unfortunately they grow up with a thwarted mentality of themselves.

Of course the media dont help the situation. How often do you see dark skinned women in the forefront, like in modelling, music videos, magazine covers. Be proud of who you are, and wear your dark skin, your kinky hair, swing your full hips, and pucker up your full lips with pride.

Motto for the day: Black is beautiful, and so is every other color under the sun!!!!

BlackCryptoKnight

April 13, 2005, 10:17 AM

well the majority of u guys do discriminate against women.

The majority of Jamaican population is black. That fact alone indicates that black women in Jamaica aren't having as hard a time having relationships as you may feel.

Women discriminate against men big time. They discriminate against men with certain financial status, as well as physical attributes including colour. When it comes to having an intimate relationship with someone, it can be argued that a person has a right to select a person for any qualities they chose. If they prefer a dark person, then so be it. If they prefer a light skinned person, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with having a personal preference. Everybody has a personal preference. That's different from victimizing or oppressing someone for their differences.

Gwadinka

April 13, 2005, 02:35 PM

I have just read all your posts and I think that I would have liked to express clearlymy opinion but I'm missing the words and talent. So I will turn to one of my mentors, Bob Marley :eusa_whis
'Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our mind
So won't you help to sing... :icon_redf I ll stop it there cuz it's gonna rain

Lisa20

April 13, 2005, 02:47 PM

Lisa20

April 13, 2005, 02:50 PM

Bahama Mama

April 13, 2005, 03:25 PM

i agree but how do we emancipate ourselves from the slavery when we ourself inflict it?

It begins with every individual, like yourself who will vow not to discriminate against anyone becasue of their race or color. Truth is, we have very little power over the actions of others, but we are all powerful when it comes to how each one of us as individuals treat others. Our own actions are the only catalyst for change.

Bahama Mama

April 13, 2005, 03:29 PM

The majority of Jamaican population is black. That fact alone indicates that black women in Jamaica aren't having as hard a time having relationships as you may feel.
BCK i will not agree with you because of one reason.

Black men prefer to date brown women and brown men prefer to date brown women!!
So who does that leave the Black women to date?

I have seen many loving relationships that invloved black men and black women. They are out there, though it may seem nil. But at the end of the day, no one can judge someone on their preference to date a certain type of individual. But a personal preference should not be seen as discrimination in every case. BUt a preference which we all have a right to express as humans.

Lisa20

April 13, 2005, 03:32 PM

I agree with you. To be honest thats the best answwer so far

BlackCryptoKnight

April 13, 2005, 03:40 PM

The majority of Jamaican population is black. That fact alone indicates that black women in Jamaica aren't having as hard a time having relationships as you may feel.
BCK i will not agree with you because of one reason.

Black men prefer to date brown women and brown men prefer to date brown women!!
So who does that leave the Black women to date?

Do the math. If everybody is dating brown people, and black women don't have anybody, then why is the majority of the population still black? :eusa_thin

You really aren't in a position to say with authority and certainty that black men prefer to date brown women. You'd be right if you said some black men prefer to date brown women, but you can't prove that all do. That's like someone saying that all women are materialistic gold-diggers. That would be a statement which is likely to be incorrect and cannot be proven or backed up with facts.

Lisa20

April 14, 2005, 07:35 PM

Do the math. If everybody is dating brown people, and black women don't have anybody, then why is the majority of the population still black? :eusa_thin

You really aren't in a position to say with authority and certainty that black men prefer to date brown women. You'd be right if you said some black men prefer to date brown women, but you can't prove that all do. That's like someone saying that all women are materialistic gold-diggers. That would be a statement which is likely to be incorrect and cannot be proven or backed up with facts.

The majority of the population is not black. The majority is bleaching in a hope gettiing our black men attention. The fact of the matter is that the deejays are singing about how much them, want browning, and humans on a whole tend to take direction from them even though that that is not the right thing to do.

The facts are there. I did a survey on about 12 of my male friends 5 being black and the remainding 7 brown. There was a lot of disagreement on the subject, but they all agreed on one thing that they would prefer to date a Brown woman than dating a black one. One the black guys went as far as saying that if there were only two person left on this earth (him and a black woman) he would have to be definately desperate to actually call that woman his girl. (Right now his not really my close friend because of that statement). This just goes to show that the mentanlity that the young men nowadays are adapting to, are one of slavery days. as was said until we emancipate ourselves that type of slavery we will forever be domed.

I really can't understand why is it so hard for us to honestly accept the fact that this is happening. :icon_mrgr

BlackCryptoKnight

April 14, 2005, 10:32 PM

The majority of the population is not black. The majority is bleaching in a hope gettiing our black men attention.

You're kidding me right? The majority of the population is bleaching in a hope to getting black men? :confused:

The fact of the matter is that the deejays are singing about how much them, want browning, and humans on a whole tend to take direction from them even though that that is not the right thing to do.

:eusa_wall

The facts are there. I did a survey on about 12 of my male friends 5 being black and the remainding 7 brown. There was a lot of disagreement on the subject, but they all agreed on one thing that they would prefer to date a Brown woman than dating a black one. One the black guys went as far as saying that if there were only two person left on this earth (him and a black woman) he would have to be definately desperate to actually call that woman his girl. (Right now his not really my close friend because of that statement). This just goes to show that the mentanlity that the young men nowadays are adapting to, are one of slavery days. as was said until we emancipate ourselves that type of slavery we will forever be domed.

:eusa_wall

I really can't understand why is it so hard for us to honestly accept the fact that this is happening. :icon_mrgr

Dat a di least...

Gillion

April 14, 2005, 11:29 PM

Lisa 20... answer the question: Describe the kind of man that you like. Describe his physical features that will most likely

CATCH YOUR EYE IMMEDIATELY

That which will turn your head when he passess you on the road.

Do not try to speed ahead and try to read my mind.
Just please answer the question.

Gillion

April 15, 2005, 12:01 AM

Lisa20 You probably should do two things to bring substance and validity to your future arguments in this thread.

(1) In any form of survey, however informal and "non academic", you should discern amongst those in your survey, who is exhbiting pure discrimination or exhbiting a mere prefference.

DISCRIMINATION by itself tends to carry a negative connotation when applied to class, creed and colour. Ergo we could keep the negative connotation for the purpose of this thread.

However

PREFERENCE which is often purely based on simple, basic, individual human tastes and needs, is often over-looked when dealing with male female issue. As such we could use prefference to define a POSITVE connotation within this thread

You must discern who is displaying prefferential or discriminative behaviour in your survey which brings to mind ...

(2) Always increase your sample size. You cannot do a survey on 5 - 12 people and submit it as evidence to back up your initial premise, since 5 data elements will not show what is called a distribution curve.

Not only is the sample data size horrendoulsy small but you didn't say clearly what kind of questions you asked each person and if the questions were the same. I need to see the questions you asked these men.

Listen I know I am a nit picker and an old worry bug but I am the kind of person that needs to learn from a methodical/logical way especially if you are teaching me something valuable.

This very valuable.

So if you want to teach me more about what you have discovered from your experiences then arguments must be well thought out.

So will you help me out ?

nuhsenutten

April 15, 2005, 07:02 AM

Mr. Intellect........unnu still de pon the same topic ? cause im lost:eusa_doh: :eusa_eh:

Lisa20

April 15, 2005, 04:36 PM

You know what forget this. This like total foolishness. First evidence was asked for and when given it is another story. u know wat forget this.

BlackCryptoKnight

April 15, 2005, 04:38 PM

You know what forget this. This like total foolishness. First evidence was asked for and when given it is another story. u know wat forget this.

Are you gonna give that kind of response in court when your advesary starts poking holes in the case you're trying to build for your client?
:eusa_whis

Lisa20

April 15, 2005, 04:41 PM

This is not Court. And trust me you would want to be up against me so just forget it

BlackCryptoKnight

April 15, 2005, 04:43 PM

This is not Court. And trust me you would want to be up against me so just forget it

Ahh bwoy... :eusa_whis

Gillion

April 15, 2005, 05:51 PM

This is not Court. And trust me you would want to be up against me so just forget it

How you mean fi just get upset so ?

Good debate my girl always come with some challenge.... and you made an assertion dat need proof ?

and how come you still don't answer my initial question but what attributes you like ?

Leina

April 22, 2005, 03:50 PM

LLUDA

April 28, 2005, 10:15 AM

Here's my one and two cents. We have been brainwashed (well some of us ) i know first hand about da slave mentality my grandma had my dad with a white man, next thing she neva liked my mom she said her son shoulda married someone that carry off him colour. Anyways its just sad cause i see females who are black (darker) and so beautiful bleaching out their colour and turnin into scary characters, its all silly if u ask me. I wonder when the "brown stick around, black stand back" gonna stop, we deny it but its still rampant. Me personally i'm not picky (maybe i am cause a white girl or brown wouldnt be my first choice reason being guys hype them up too much and i'm not average joe) but its getting to know the person thats what counts i think. when will all this stop is beyond me, Sista's you need to love yourself no matter the colour, tone whatever, then u will froce us guys to look deeper (i hope).

Bahama Mama

April 28, 2005, 11:45 AM

there is no problem being black and living in Jamaica, the problem is being a "browning" and living her because for one u are constantly harassed by less desirable men, you are hated by some women because the only the thing you do it steal their men. we are the reason why some women bleach, why some women are ignored by men. A friend of mine said that if she doesn't want to be bothered the only thing she has to do is to walk with her other brown friend.
to me this is foolishness, people consider me to be brown but i feel black. What is so important about looks it is who you are inside that really matters

I doubt women of lighter hues 'brownings' are the only reason that women of darker hues bleach. The mentality that lighter is better is often one that is entrenched in a persons psyche from the time they are young and impressionable by family members. A shame it is. If parents, and other family members would instill a sense of pride in young girls about their physical attributes, darker skin, kinky hair, etc. black societies like Jamaica and my own would not have a ton of women walking around with low self esteem, insecurity about themselves, and putting that lye on their face.

Darker skin does not equate to ugly, lighter skin 'browning' does not equate to beautiful. Beauty is found in all hues. Take the former Ms.Trinidad and Ms. Universe Wendy Fitzwilliam, she was a dark skinned woman. Her beauty was unquestionable. May be if one removed such labels like browning from everyday language, it can inititate a change in mentality. Black comes in many hues, from dark dark brown to the lightest brown. If you go to North America, they will refer to most people of dark brown to light brown complexion as Black. There would be no such thing as a browning, which to me sounds classsist.

A dark skinned woman who has a strong sense of who she is and loves the way God made her will have no reason to hate lighter skin women. She will have the kind of confidence that no man or woman can break.

Bahama Mama

April 28, 2005, 11:48 AM

kirklove

April 28, 2005, 07:15 PM

Been in JA is....................

Kimberly

June 12, 2005, 07:01 PM

You're kidding me right? The majority of the population is bleaching in a hope to getting black men? :confused:

:eusa_wall

:eusa_wall

Dat a di least...

Lol

Its a Good thread,though.
I agree with many of the points.
This whole browning thing is a direct result of slavery.
Many of these light-skinned people dont realize that why they are brown and not white is because they have black ancestry.

nuhsenutten

June 13, 2005, 10:00 AM

virus_ncu

June 13, 2005, 10:46 AM

i can spot a girl that bleach a mile away. i dont want no bleaching girl because she did black before.

dyllon

June 13, 2005, 11:58 AM

No bleachin roun here rasta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LadyMC

June 13, 2005, 05:51 PM

Hey, this post reminds me of a poem I saw a long time ago....So i went and dug it up on the internet for anyone who may read this post and just happen to be ashamed of being black. It has 2 parts, the question and Gods reply. Gonna put it in two separate posts cuz it's kinda long. It's called "Lord, Why did you make me black"

LORD, WHY DID YOU MAKE ME BLACK?

Lord, Lord,
Why did You make me Black?
Why did You make me someone
The world wants to hold back?

Black is the color of dirty clothes;
The color of grimy hands and feet.
Black is the color of darkness;
The color of tire-beaten streets.

Why did you give me thick lips,
A broad nose and kinky hair?
Why did You make me someone
Who receives the hatred stare?

Black is the color of a bruised eye
When somebody gets hurt.
Black is the color of darkness.
Black is the color of dirt.
How come my bone structure's so thick;
my hips and cheeks are high?
How come my eyes are brown
and not the color of the daylight sky?

Why do people think I'm useless?
How come I feel so used?
Why do some people see my skin and think I should be abused?

Lord, I just don't understand;
What is it about my skin?
Why do some people want to hate me
And not know the person within?

Black is what people are "listed",
When others want to keep them away.
Black is the color of shadows cast.
Black is the end of the day.

Lord, You know, my own people mistreat me;
And I know this just isn't right.
They don't like my hair or the way I look
They say I'm too dark or too light.

Lord, Don't You think it's time
For You to make a change?
Why don't You re-do creation
And make everyone the same?

LadyMC

June 13, 2005, 05:53 PM

(God answered: )

Why did I make you black?
Why did I make you black?

Get off your knees and look around.
Tell Me, what do you see?
I didn't make you in the image of darkness.
I made you in the Likeness of ME!

I made you the color of coal
From which beautiful diamonds are formed.
I made you the color of oil,
The black-gold that keeps people warm.

I made you from the rich, dark earth
That can grow the food you need.
Your color's the same as the panther's
Known for (HER) beauty and speed.

Your color's the same as the Black stallion,
A majestic animal is he.
I didn't make you in the Image of darkness
I made you in the Likeness of Me!

All the colors of a Heavenly Rainbow
Can be found throughout every nation;
And when all those colors were blended well,
YOU BECAME MY GREATEST CREATION.

Your hair is the texture of lamb's wool
Such a humble, little creature is he.
I am the Shepherd who watches them.
I am the One who will watch over thee.

You are the color of midnight-sky,
I put the stars' glitter in your eyes.
There's a smile hidden behind your pain
That's the reason your cheeks are high.

You are the color of dark clouds formed
when I send My strongest weather.
I made your lips full so when you kiss
the one you love they will remember.

Your stature is strong; your bone structure, thick
to withstand the burdens of time.
The reflection you see in the mirror...
The Image looking back at you is MINE!

- RuNett Nia Ebo

Inspired by the book of Genesis 1:26a and 27a&c
That's it. It stuck with me for years, so I figure it just might touch someone else. Really cool poem :eusa_clap

J.A.4life

June 26, 2005, 10:18 PM

I love that poem where did you get.

J.A.4life

June 26, 2005, 10:27 PM

I know I am a little late but this is my first time on. This whole color thing should not be but it is because [B]MOST[B] men like their woman to be lighter and because of that most Dark skin women feel left out and want to bleach their skin so that they could get some attention too.

Manu

June 26, 2005, 11:21 PM

Gees....so having a preference for or being more attracted to....is a result of slavery?

pogi_2nr

June 27, 2005, 10:58 AM

I love my coffee without the milk.. ;)

anyway lets look at some fools:
http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH T MEMORIAL/DSC07632.jpg
Come on now!
http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH T MEMORIAL/DSC07633.jpg
willy bounce :eusa_danc
http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH T MEMORIAL/DSC07635.jpg
at least do more than your face so its not so obvious.

Regards,
Pogi Tuner.

chany86

June 27, 2005, 11:04 AM

LOLOL. wooo, hot boys in those piks...but there are darker skin ppl around him who aint bleaching. what was thinking??

cho. oh well. his skin not mine

Xenocrates

June 27, 2005, 11:41 AM

Gees....so having a preference for or being more attracted to....is a result of slavery?

Good question manu.

Let me say from my Athropological studies:

The black inferiority complex is NOT derivative of slavery.

Therefore, everyone who has posted before who has suggested that:

It's because of your parent's brainwashing
It's because of slavery
It's because of colonial habitation and inter-breeding

...are all dead wrong.

The inferiority complex of black people has gone on long before the days of your parents, Bob Marley, colonialism, slavery and even modern recorded civilization.

The children of Ham which took on the negroid genome, the Cushítes, separated from the original family of Noah because of this very same reason. They settled in what is now known as Ethiopia.

Everywhere in recorded history where the original caucasians encountered black people or just any people of a darker complexion, the settlers subdued themselves to the caucasians because of a genetically inbred sense of inferiority in all human beings. It has nothing to do with culture, class, slavery or colonialism. In fact, it is BECAUSE of this inferiority complex, why we've had slavery, classism, racism, wars and colonialism.

Proof:

When Christopher Columbus came to the new world, the Arawaks (which are genetically akin to the Native American Indian) thought them to be Gods, and in some cases, worshipped them.

When the French settlers first travelled to Africa in the 18th Century, the black villagers brought food and sacrifices to them, in an attempt to worship them. The French settlers instead of capitalising on their ignorance, setup peaceful relations with the black tribes for trade and communion.

When the British Kingdom first settled in Australia, everywhere the Aboriginees first encountered them, they attempted to worship them. But unlike the French, the Brits capitalized on the ignorance of the Aboriginees and drove them off their land to create what is now known as Sydney.

When the Conquistadors first came to Central America, the Mayas and Aztecs brought them gold in various forms, as an offering to them in "recognition of their perceived superiority". Again, unlike the French, the Conquistadors plundered their cities, driving them to the brink of extinction.

When the English needed workers for the new world after the Arawaks died out, they travelled to Africa, where the black villages there willfully submit themselves to the Europeans for what they perceived to be an exchange of wealth. When they finally made sense of what they were trying to do, the village leaders sold out their own village people into slavery, in exchange for monetary wealth.

To this very day, even in the Jamaican Government, Gov't officials would rather spend millions of dollars for WHITE consultants from the North to come into the organisation to do work and participate in projects where their own employees could have easily done themselves for no extra cash.

Black people who have caucasian, asian or Aryan Indian bosses, always subject themselves to "kissing up" to them or subconsciously exhibit behaviour that would suggest that they consider themselves inferior to these other people of fairer physical traits.

- What exactly am I trying to say? It's pretty obvious:

The inferiority complex of black people is a primordial element of the consciousness of all human beings. It is not limited to black people.

We are genetically ingrained with that mentality. ALL of us. Do you think your parents learned that from their parents? That can't be the case. Most of your parents were not born in slavery. Most of your parents have NEVER worked for a non-black person.

Bahama Mama

June 27, 2005, 11:42 AM

My lawd, his face burn right up. I cyan stan ta see man bleach, so unattractive. But this is a good illustration of what is going in many black C'bbean societies.

Xenocrates

June 27, 2005, 11:43 AM

Consider this:

How is it that the Aryan Indians were able to place the darker indians into a lower caste in pre-modern India before Ghandi stood up and spoke out against it?

How is it that the Aryan Caucasians of Northern Europe (Those with the blonde hair, blue or green eyes and with males of an average height of 6 feet) were able to take Europe by force during World War II, enslaving other Caucasian races (those who had red, black or brown hair, brown eyes and males under 6 feet tall) for over 6 years of bloody war?

How is it that even today, in OUR Jamaican society, that Black people are segregating themselves from OTHER black people because one set is lighter in complexion than another?

In fact, HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE, that a white man can make a BLACK man his SLAVE?!?! Are we really that stupid?

...it's because of our innate tenacity to think ourselves inferior to others of fairer physical attributes.

IT IS HUMAN NATURE

Therefore, all this b!tching about brown skin girls versus dark skin girls is utter nonsense. Every man (and woman) is entitled to like a woman or man (respectively) based on their own ethnic preferences.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

It is not Discrimination or Slavery.

HOWEVER, it would be utterly FOOLISH of any person of a darker complexion, newly armed with this information, to continue thinking themselves inferior to another of fairer traits. Although it is natural human nature to think that way, we have evolved itellectually enough to counteract that kind of thinking. The sensation will ALWAYS be there, so long as a human race exists.

As such...

:icon_arro Lisa20 (if you should ever read this)

Black girls who consider themselves inferior to brown skin girls are only succumbing to this natural innate fear.

We fear whatever we don't fully understand. Such is human nature.

The Arawaks, the aboriginees, the tribes of indians and blacks living in undeveloped parts of the world always worshipped or considered themselves inferior to a race of fair skinned men because they didn't understand them, nor did they even consider them to be mortal.

Knowledge removes all fear.

When you consider brown skinned girls to be no more female than you are, you will realise that you still possess all the facets of feminism to entrance ANY man. It is utterly ridiculous to beat down on fair skinned women because they draw more male attention.

Furthermore, black woman, Why OH why, would you even want a man who is only attracted to you because of the shade of your skin? Only a fool of a woman would think like that - if you should even consider that thinking.

Bahama Mama

June 27, 2005, 11:45 AM

Good question manu.

Let me say from my Athropological studies:

The black inferiority complex is NOT derivative of slavery.

Therefore, everyone who has posted before who has suggested that:

It's because of your parent's brainwashing
It's because of slavery
It's because of colonial habitation and inter-breeding

...are all dead wrong.

The inferiority complex of black people has gone on long before the days of your parents, Bob Marley, colonialism, slavery and even modern recorded civilization.

The children of Ham which took on the negroid genome, the Cushítes, separated from the original family of Noah because of this very same reason. They settled in what is now known as Ethiopia.

Everywhere in recorded history where the original caucasians encountered black people or just any people of a darker complexion, the settlers subdued themselves to the caucasians because of a genetically inbred sense of inferiority in all human beings. It has nothing to do with culture, class, slavery or colonialism. In fact, it is BECAUSE of this inferiority complex, why we've had slavery, classism, racism, wars and colonialism.

Proof:

When Christopher Columbus came to the new world, the Arawaks (which are genetically akin to the Native American Indian) thought them to be Gods, and in some cases, worshipped them.

When the French settlers first travelled to Africa in the 18th Century, the black villagers brought food and sacrifices to them, in an attempt to worship them. The French settlers instead of capitalising on their ignorance, setup peaceful relations with the black tribes for trade and communion.

When the British Kingdom first settled in Australia, everywhere the Aboriginees first encountered them, they attempted to worship them. But unlike the French, the Brits capitalized on the ignorance of the Aboriginees and drove them off their land to create what is now known as Sydney.

When the Conquistadors first came to Central America, the Mayas and Aztecs brought them gold in various forms, as an offering to them in "recognition of their perceived superiority". Again, unlike the French, the Conquistadors plundered their cities, driving them to the brink of extinction.

When the English needed workers for the new world after the Arawaks died out, they travelled to Africa, where the black villages there willfully submit themselves to the Europeans for what they perceived to be an exchange of wealth. When they finally made sense of what they were trying to do, the village leaders sold out their own village people into slavery, in exchange for monetary wealth.

To this very day, even in the Jamaican Government, Gov't officials would rather spend millions of dollars for WHITE consultants from the North to come into the organisation to do work and participate in projects where their own employees could have easily done themselves for no extra cash.

Black people who have caucasian, asian or Aryan Indian bosses, always subject themselves to "kissing up" to them or subconsciously exhibit behaviour that would suggest that they consider themselves inferior to these other people of fairer physical traits.

- What exactly am I trying to say? It's pretty obvious:

The inferiority complex of black people is a primordial element of the consciousness of all human beings. It is not limited to black people.

We are genetically ingrained with that mentality. ALL of us. Do you think your parents learned that from their parents? That can't be the case. Most of your parents were not born in slavery. Most of your parents have NEVER worked for a non-black person.

I may have to ponder this one for a while Xeno. Nature or Nurture is the question eh?

Xenocrates

June 27, 2005, 11:48 AM

Take your time to ponder. Observe peoples of darker complexion worldwide while you're at it. ;)

Manu

June 27, 2005, 02:50 PM

Thank You Xeno. One question though....if a person thinks brown women look better than dark women.....does that make them racist? Or is it because that a really beautiful dark-skinned sister is harder to find than a brown skinned beauty? I guess it comes down to..what makes either girl more attractive....the color of their skin or other attributes. Brown women (mullatoes) more often than never have really pretty hair and smooth clair skin. Maybe it's the caucasian mix. Plus they tend to look better natural. Now from that stand point....I can relate to what Lisa20 is saying....but she takes a step further...which is where the problem lies....

What is your take Xeno?

Bahama Mama

June 27, 2005, 03:50 PM

Manu

June 27, 2005, 03:58 PM

Well I think the problem is when people align beauty with only lighter hues and ugliness with only darker hues. For some men they would take a plain looking light skin girl over a beautiful dark skin girl anyday. What that says is that some people have narrowed their ideas of beauty to simply skin complexion and nothing more. Of course it would be more sensible to look for other attributes, but society has made many of us very shallow in our thinking.

Preference should never be equated to racism. We all have that right and we all have our preferences. It only becomes racist when one treats someone in a negative way because of their physical attributes. That is wrong.

Ok....what about that initial attraction? Most men tend to give a brown girl the time of day more than a black girl. Truth be told, the black girl is much better than the brown girl...but for she to have a chance....they have to meet over the phone or the net....so that her other attibutes show up more then her skin tone won't an issue but the brown girls provide a better first reaction. I love very beautiful black women though. Cool skinned dark girl are extremely attractive IMO.

icuucme

June 27, 2005, 04:25 PM

Manu

June 27, 2005, 04:32 PM

Stop talk stupiness nah yute...well everybody have different preferences..i guess thas yours.

OK....first you say to stop talking stupidness....then you say everyone has different preferences......which is it? Anyways....I do share some of the qualities of what I posted about but I was speaking from a third person view rather a first person one.

Bahama Mama

June 27, 2005, 04:40 PM

Ok....what about that initial attraction? Most men tend to give a brown girl the time of day more than a black girl. Truth be told, the black girl is much better than the brown girl...but for she to have a chance....they have to meet over the phone or the net....so that her other attibutes show up more then her skin tone won't an issue but the brown girls provide a better first reaction. I love very beautiful black women though. Cool skinned dark girl are extremely attractive IMO.

Well inital attraction depends on the individual and what draws them to an individual. Sufficed to say a pretty brown (light skin ) girl next to a pretty black (dark skin ) girl will garner more attention according to the standards set by society. But shold society's standards be your own? I dont think so. Society is to messed up to be trying to set standards.

Manu

June 27, 2005, 04:56 PM

Well inital attraction depends on the individual and what draws them to an individual. Sufficed to say a pretty brown (light skin ) girl next to a pretty black (dark skin ) girl will garner more attention according to the standards set by society. But shold society's standards be your own? I dont think so. Society is to messed up to be trying to set standards.

Aha.....that is exactly the point. It boils down to personal preference....whether it be influenced by society, upbringing or deriving your own taste.

Bahama Mama

June 27, 2005, 05:07 PM

Okay Xeno, I had a chance to read your first indepth response to thie thread. From what I gather, you are saying that all humans regardless of race possess a built in inferiority complex. If all races have this genetic element of our personality, why does it seem so pronouced in the black race, as compared to any other race? And if you are saying that we genetically are inbedded with this inferiority complex, then nothing can be done to curb its effects in the black race.

virus_ncu

June 27, 2005, 05:28 PM

I love my coffee without the milk.. ;)

anyway lets look at some fools:
http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH T MEMORIAL/DSC07632.jpg
Come on now!
willy bounce :eusa_danc
at least do more than your face so its not so obvious.

Regards,
Pogi Tuner.
LOL, mi naa lie star. I was on the floor in laughter and tears when i saw these pic. These picture should be in the funny bone section. it dont even need any word to say anything at all. just look and start laugh.

Why these monkey think that women like them more looking like that. and look pon the bwoy neck and hand.. he is not even all that dark, he is already brown.

Manu

June 27, 2005, 05:35 PM

Should put it in the "Picture This" thread....lol

nuhsenutten

June 27, 2005, 05:47 PM

hahahahahahahahahahahhaha.......now im wondering what in heavens name could persuade someone to do something like that to them self........
:rofl: :rotflm: :dwl: :rofl: i think he heard that two tone was the new in thing.......

Xenocrates

June 27, 2005, 05:51 PM

If all races have this genetic element of our personality, why does it seem so pronouced in the black race, as compared to any other race?

- Because being a black person, you're naturally inclined to having only heard information about black people and race related issues. In fact, it's more like you don't seek to find information on any other race, by virtue of us being black. Look at it this way:

When you first buy a motor vehicle, you don't realise how common that specific brand of vehicle is on the road until you've driven one or until you've taken interest in that specific brand of vehicle. The same thing applies to us as black people. We assume that only black people have this problem because we are black. We have not yet sought out information on any other race. So we are ill-equipped in making such a fallacious statement.

Consider the Asians

There are Asians who have never seen a black man before, let alone heard of black people to begin with. To them, the race superiority / inferiority complex issue has to do with them and Japan. The Japanese consider themselves to be racially superior to the chinese because the Japanese have more features that are closer in appearance with caucasians than the chinese. Additionally, Japanese culture has evolved at least 10 times faster.

Pose the same problem I have to a chinese person and they will give you the same response:

"Why is it so pronounced in Chinese people more than anyone else?"

Chinese people suffer from the same inferiority complex issue when they are in the presence of a Japanese national. For this reason, the Chinese HATE the Japanese, just like how black girls out here hate the brown skinned ones. It was particularly evident during World War II.

Likewise in Japan, they consider caucasians to be racially superior to them. This is one of the driving causes of interracial breeding of caucasians and Japanese nationals to develop a race of humans known as Euroasians. It is even evident in Japanese artwork. Their animé characters look distinctively more caucasian than Asian. It was only until recently that Video Game pioneer Hironoubo Sakaguchi highlighted this inferiority complex in Japan, and pushed Japanese videogame developers to create characters that had a more distinctively asian appearance, than the super-cute euroasian attributes that has dominated Japanese artwork since the 1960's. The result was the beautifully rendered artworkf of Final Fantasy X and upwards. Other Japanese art studios are now following suit.

Did you know about this? I bet you didn't. ;)

If you ask me Bahama Mama, the Chinese and Euro-Caucasian people have faced far more intense inferiority complex issues than Black people. It only seems more pronounced around us because you and I are black and we live in black cultures.

And if you are saying that we genetically are inbedded with this inferiority complex, then nothing can be done to curb its effects in the black race.

- Actually, something can be done. When we understand the mechanics of how and why we feel that way, you realise that it's not that big a deal. However, black people are so egocentric, that we are quick to assert that our problems are related to the colour of our skin. If just for a second we step off our self erected pedestle and realise that the problem extends to other races, we'll realise that we are making much ado about nothing. Black people are too quick to assert that their race is the most important and that we have the biggest problems. This is nothing short of nonsensical dribble based on zero research or information.

There's nothing that can be done about the inferiority complex. It will always be there for generations to come. However, we have to force ourselves not to make decisions because of that sensation. It's just like our innate disgust for homosexuality. Most people would throw up at the very thought. That is also a natural reaction. However, fighting this primordial tenacity is a fundamental necessity for the evolution of modern society. For without it, we will be nothing more than animals that don't think about our natural instinctive sensations before we act on them.

nuhsenutten

June 27, 2005, 05:58 PM

so thats what the wole Japan - China thing based on ? ....i somehow thought it was deeper than that

Xenocrates

June 27, 2005, 06:07 PM

It is deeper than that. I deliberately left out other concerns such as:

The socio-economic competition between them
Attrocities commited in China by Japanese ninja assassins in the 18th Century (burning down and slaughter of Shaolin Temple being one)
Using chinese POWs as nuclear test subjects by Japanese scientists in WWII
The hunt down and murder of several young chinese emperors by Japanese Blood Samurai (Red Dragon Clan) in a deperate stint to snuff out the Chinese monarchy
The last ditch attempt by Japan to subsume the chinese government into theirs during the turn of the 20th century

There is much MUCH more that needs to be added to this, but it all stems from the same race superiority/inferiority complex issues between the two cultures.

Madhacker

June 28, 2005, 01:25 AM

its not the colour of a girls skin attracts me its the way she talks, how she carries herself , her physique and her mind. But I think most of this is at first site what kind of girl would I prefer guess it boils down to one thing " IT NUH REALLY MATTER IF SHE BLACK ARE WHITE OR BROWN :) as long as am interested "

Madhacker

June 28, 2005, 01:31 AM

Is your Insurance company changing faces on you not giving you the details in full black and white just white well have no fair GIECO YOUTH IS hear

http://dancehallreggae.com/images/DIYOUTH/JAH%20T%20MEMORIAL/DSC07632.jpg
Gieco save tonns on your car insurance

Dem change just like di wheather :eusa_whis
Di freaks comes out at night the freaks comes out at night get those monkey out all ppl dem wid dem face bleach out whe you si dem you fi shout

OOOH OOOH HA HA HA :icon_twis

nuhsenutten

June 28, 2005, 08:23 AM

pogi_2nr

June 28, 2005, 10:26 AM

Di freaks comes out at night the freaks comes out at night get those monkey out all ppl dem wid dem face bleach out whe you si dem you fi shout

OOOH OOOH HA HA HA :icon_twis
:dwl: :rofl: :rotflm: :D

Kimberly

June 29, 2005, 01:50 AM

Xenocrates perhaps in your opinion those who believe many black people suffer from an inferiority complex as a result of slavery are dead wrong.
You are taking statements to several impractical extremes.
Clearly some blacks suffer from this complex as a result of other factors.For example many blacks are physically and verbally abused and this may cause low self esteem which may in turn lead to an inferiority complex.Therefore persons from different races can develop an inferiority complex.
However this topic relates primarily to black people,not Asains and final fantasy etc I am black so really I am more interested in engaging in a black discussion as the title states. Consider the United Stated,where a number of blacks suffer from an inferiority complex this is primarily a result of the racial division which exists as a result of slavery.Other factors that contribute to inferiority can also be traced to slavery.
Yes in many instances blacks discriminate against blacks,why because many blacks through experience have come to hate themselves and their own kind surely you have heard the phrase “nutten black nuh good” Job prospects are dim for them in the USA if you have a black name ex. Laquisha Spencer or Romaine Powell don’t expect to get that job because before they see your face and analyze your qualifications youre gone.Are you then saying that racism and discrimination which has contributed significantly to the inferiority complex is not a result of slavery?
You have cited evidence about Arawaks worshipping Europeans as you know the Arawaks were primitive people with low intelligence if a different species of dog was discovered roaming the land they would have likely worshipped him.Anything out of the norm they took as a sign from Gods and worshipped.
If in fact inferiority and superiority complexes (as sited in your analysis of the Chinese and Japanese) have nothing to do with slavery.Why do you think that the Chinese consider themselves superior to the Japanese because they have more Caucasian features.
The answer is simple as a result of slavery the white man has/had deemed himself superior and many people view whites as such.The whites have enslaved countless numbers of races and forced their seemingly better culture on many.The fact is even if white people are friendly to blacks in and argument the race thing always comes up if not verbally mentally. As Eminem’s former security guard said Eminem treated him very well confided in each other etc. however when he asked for a wage increase and Eminem refused, he said he wanted to resign Eminem who had a relationship with this man for over a decade said “Well the beef is on,nigga” another instance a family member told me was that she and her white friend in America were shopping and the beeper went off at the door and the alarm sounded her white “friend” immediately stated “Christ,don’t tell me you took something,why you people always…” then she stopped herself.Turns out the sales attendant had forgotten to take that white thing off of one of the items the white woman had purchased. Bear in mind that my Aunt and her the woman are co-workers who work for a mortgage company selling mortgages.She had no reason to think that my aunt would steal anything as they are both earning good salaries etc she thought she shoplifted based on her race. Yes,I know these are just incidents and some white people really treasure their friendships with blacks and would never ever judge them based on their race.
In Jamaica looking at the movers and shakers they are usually light skinned,white or of Syrian descent Audrey Marks and Aubyn Hill are just a few black people on the economic scene. Even as it concerns businesses the black man’s business gets the most criticism from fellow blacks and the least patronage.(As many of you have realized many blacks would rather see their fellow blacks suffer as they have come to prefer the idea of other races acheiving greater success many black people have a disease that cannot be cured badmine and grudge which is usually focused on their fellow people)Yes sometimes due to the fact that the black man’s prices are higher because he does not have the capital to purchase large quantities so as to get discounts from suppliers so that such savings can be brought to the consumer.Generally however, in the same manner that many people believe imported goods are better it is in the same manner that we perceive light skinned people,whites and other non-black races and attributes to be better.A black man invented the refridgerator and iron and many seldom know this why I don’t have to spell it out if it were a white man we would have most likely learnt his name in school like the inventor of electricity who was white.
As someone said people are bleaching as they feel and understandably so ignored and feel that their brown counterparts get more attention and feel the need to do something to get attention also. Instead of embracing themselves they are trying to imitate things like these should really be addressed in schools especially those in low-income areas.
About the preference thing in some instances no, but some people men and women deliberately go for light-skinned or as some people put it “high-colour” people (I despise the phrase.What really makes their colour high when I heard the Director of Personnel of a government ministry use the phrase I cringed you would think he or she would have emancipated themselves tsk tsk.) because they want someone to carry them off the fact that brown and white is better is in their subconscious so it is natural to desire persons like that without realizing the true reasons for that.
If we were to state instances of inferiority and slavery in other countries and between other races the thread would become off-topic. We are dealing with as the title states “..black…… in Jamaica”
Anyway I could write much more but im tired.
As Lisa20 and others have stated there is indeed a problem with being black and living in Jamaica. Has anyone noticed in Jamaica it is the minorities that control wealth and the economy and in the USA it’s the reverse hmmm.

Xenocrates

June 29, 2005, 12:18 PM

Hi, Kimberly.

Thanks for your spirited response. :D However, I'm gonna ask you to help me out. Don't take this the wrong way: Reading your post was extremely difficult for the several reasons. I don't mind reading a long bit of text (as I'm an avid reader) but let me be objective about this. I would appreciate it even moreso, if the writer observed some simple principles:

Commas - Use them to separate multiple thoughts in one sentence if you can't avoid limiting one sentence to one thought.

Run-on Sentences - Avoid placing multiple ideas in one sentence. It makes it incredibly difficult to understand otherwise. This can lead to my misquoting you or misunderstanding what you were trying to say.

Paragraph breaks - Place two carriage returns after each paragraph. One carriage return will start your next paragraph immediately under the previous one, causing multiple re-reads of the same line from subsequent lines. This is very important!

Full-Stops - Use them to separate your sentences. In a number of instances, I noticed that you had two sentences running right into each other without any full stops. It took me the better part of 15 minutes to sort out what you were saying about Aubyn Hill and black people in businesses before trying to respond to it. :icon_eek:

Space after Full-Stops & Commas - Place a single space after each full stop. The only time you don't put a space after a fullstop is if you are coding a object oriented procedure call on an instance of a class. Since I doubt you're a programmer, put a space after each full stop so it's easy for your readers to parse what you're trying to say. The same goes for commas. Your sentences are incredibly more difficult to read otherwise.

Spelling - I don't mean to nitpick, but if you spell a word incorrectly, especially in the case of a homonym (two words which sound alike but with different spellings - hence different meanings) then it is quite likely that I will misinterpret what you are trying to say. A good example is where you typed "sited" instead of "cited". Reading in context, "sited" completely changes the meaning of the entire sentence. I have to therefore make assumptions on what you really meant, which increases the risk of my misinterpreting, misquoting or completely misunderstanding what you were trying to say. I do not wish to fall into a "he said, she said" argument on syntax. So it's important we use the right spelling - especially in a lengthy response. Typos I'll forgive. But you probably won't forgive me if I misunderstand you. It's easy for discussions of this sort to become emotional.

If we're going to have lengthy responses to each other, we need to make our thoughts clear, concise, correct and comprehensible. Otherwise, it significantly increases the risk of misunderstanding by your fellow readers. Take it from me. I learned the hard way on TechJamaica. ;)

With that out of the way, let's get on with the business of the discussion! :icon_mrgr

Xenocrates

June 29, 2005, 12:20 PM

You are taking statements to several impractical extremes.

- I highly doubt that. I'll explain:

Clearly some blacks suffer from this complex as a result of other factors.For example many blacks are physically and verbally abused and this may cause low self esteem which may in turn lead to an inferiority complex.

- And why are they ridiculed? It's because of an Superiority Complex. They both stem from the same psychological dissonance.

However this topic relates primarily to black people,not Asains and final fantasy etc

- I concur. My attempt was to however show that the entire topic is moot, since black people aren't the only people who suffer from this problem. It's a world wide issue (hence why I highlighted the Asians).

Why are we so pre-occupied with our blackness as though it were that important to think that the issue only relates to us? This is a nonsensical if not narrominded way to think. The reason why black people are the way they are is because they are too egocentric, narcissistic and pathologically self-loathing. It's this kind of thinking that leads us black people to despise white folks and completely misunderstand them. Fear of what we don't understand often leads to illogical social behaviour such as racism. Open your mind a little and see that the colour of your skin is NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

And if you don't believe that is your issue, check out what you said:

I am black so really I am more interested in engaging in a black discussion as the title states.

- It is thinking like this that eventually leads to prejudice and subsequently racism. It might not happen in your case, but the potential is there. It is women like you who despise brothers who hook up with white women or fair skinned girls who acquire more male attention. All I was saying previously, was that it is highly immature to become so hung up on the colour of our skin. That's a mentality that is borne out of inferior self perception. Black people should STOP thinking like that.

Consider the United Stated,where a number of blacks suffer from an inferiority complex this is primarily a result of the racial division which exists as a result of slavery.Other factors that contribute to inferiority can also be traced to slavery.

- A difficult sentence to parse initially. Anywho...

...Slavery is not the only cause of inferiority complexes. There are a number of races which were not enslaved, but their self perception was warped by them assuming that their self worth was relative to the colour of their skin. It's a downright childish way to think. You said it yourself:

Yes in many instances blacks discriminate against blacks,why because many blacks through experience have come to hate themselves and their own kind

- And I agree. This is what I was alluding to. This has been going on for HUNDREDS of years. Did you realise that it was BLACK PEOPLE who sold THEIR OWN KIND into slavery? If we all knew that, we'd stop hating white people for just one second and realise that slavery in the Caribbean was initially OUR FAULT.

surely you have heard the phrase “nutten black nuh good”

- Unlike most people Kim (can I call you Kim?), I research the root of everything I've come to know. I've heard it yes, but it has not impacted on my thinking. Understanding why the phrase existed in the first place automatically defeated the usefulness of the phrase for me. It is a self defeating expression and I refuse to let the colour of my skin become my disability.

Xenocrates

June 29, 2005, 12:22 PM

Job prospects are dim for them in the USA if you have a black name ex. Laquisha Spencer or Romaine Powell don’t expect to get that job because before they see your face and analyze your qualifications youre gone.

- You're generalizing - fallaciously at that. Apparently you've never heard of "white trash". There are white folks in the US who can't get a job because they live in a trailer park. What's your point? :eusa_thin

Are you then saying that racism and discrimination which has contributed significantly to the inferiority complex is not a result of slavery?

- Absolutely! Adolf Hitler discriminated against ALL non-aryan whites, even though none of them were enslaved! He made it personal for Jews (which do not exhibit aryan qualities). Do yourself a favour, Google up:

Aryan Supremacy, The Third Reich and The Nazi Party

You'll realise that this very debate is born out of ignorance.

You have cited evidence about Arawaks worshipping Europeans as you know the Arawaks were primitive people with low intelligence if a different species of dog was discovered roaming the land they would have likely worshipped him.Anything out of the norm they took as a sign from Gods and worshipped.

- Another difficult to read sentence...anywho...

...This is still an inferiority complex. Explain to me then why other races did not worship the Egyptians who were technologically superior to them, although they were much darker in complexion than other races further south on the continent or futher west?

The Greeks were caucasians. Yet many Greek Philosophers travelled to Egypt and adapted their mathematical teachings without worshipping the Egyptians. In fact, the Pythagoras' Theorem is EGYPTIAN MADE. He said it himself.

Another example; The Medes and Persians are darker in complexion than the Greeks. Alexander the Great was not white (as the movie depicts) - Yet he and his army CONQUERED GREECE, which is populated by caucasians! Interestingly enough, he was taught by a Caucasian: Aristotle! He didn't let the colour of his skin (or his wayward sexuality) stop him from being the greatest conqueror in World History.

I could name many more examples... but I think you get the point.

If in fact inferiority and superiority complexes (as sited in your analysis of the Chinese and Japanese) have nothing to do with slavery.Why do you think that the Chinese consider themselves superior to the Japanese because they have more Caucasian features.

- I'm not sure how to read this sentence. I think you put full stops where there shouldn't be any, and there might be a few missing question signs. So I'm going to take a best guess at what you're saying:

Correction: It's the Japanese that consider themselves superior to the Chinese. Therefore:

The answer is simple as a result of slavery the white man has/had deemed himself superior and many people view whites as such.

- Incorrect. The war between Japan and China had been going on for centuries before the white man was smart enough to think that the world was round. Therefore, it is impossible that the white man's slavery could have caused this effect.

The whites have enslaved countless numbers of races and forced their seemingly better culture on many.

- You make it seem as though the caucasians were the only race to enslave another. Persians enslaved greeks and other races, including negroes and Indians. The Egyptians enslaved the Hebrew. In the case of the Egyptians, they were darker in complexion to their Medo-Persian complexion Hebrew slaves. Again, this point is moot.

The fact is even if white people are friendly to blacks in and argument the race thing always comes up if not verbally mentally. As Eminem’s former security guard said Eminem treated him very well confided in each other etc. however when he asked for a wage increase and Eminem refused, he said he wanted to resign Eminem who had a relationship with this man for over a decade said “Well the beef is on,nigga”

- Get your story straight. If his bodyguard hadn't started the race argument ("oh, it's because I'm black"), Em would not have resigned to using the expression "nigga" in the first place. Em doesn't consider the color of his skin when doing his thing as a hindrance. In fact, he's made countless inferences to "White America" and how they treat him differently from his black rap counterparts because he is white. If Eminem considered himself to be superior to black folks, then tell me this:

Why OH WHY would Em continue to sign BLACK ARTISTES to his Shady Label?

Xenocrates

June 29, 2005, 12:26 PM

another instance a family member told me was that she and her white friend in America were shopping and the beeper went off at the door and the alarm sounded her white “friend” immediately stated “Christ,don’t tell me you took something,why you people always…” then she stopped herself...

- You've highlighted an instance here of racial profiling. This has virtually nothing to do with what we're talking about. I could write you an exegesis on how this came to be, but that would take us away from the discussion. Perhaps in another thread if you so desire. (hint, hint ;) )

Yes,I know these are just incidents and some white people really treasure their friendships with blacks and would never ever judge them based on their race.

- Okaay... so what's your point? I'm not seeing what you were trying to prove. :eusa_eh:

In Jamaica looking at the movers and shakers they are usually light skinned,white or of Syrian descent Audrey Marks and Aubyn Hill are just a few black people on the economic scene.

- So what? Is that to say that black people can't have successful businesses too? Let's illustrate something here for a second:

How white people think:

- I will sacrifice anything necessary for the business to survive using the smartest means necessary.

How Asian People think:

- I will never work for anyone else but myself. I will sacrifice anything necessary to feed my family.

How Indian/Syrian people think:

- I will go into any form of business where the returns for maximum growth exist.

How black people think:

- I will get rich or die trying. I'll only start a business to feed myself, or get rich, whichever comes first.

A recent survey done by the University of Technology (2004 - 2005) showed a VERY DISTINCT correlation between:

The race of a person
The way how they look at making money

Black people go into business for more selfish reasons than people of other races. Why is that? There are many social implications of this. However, when you consider what a famous sociologist said in light of black people selling black people into slavery, it makes perfect sense. Paraphrased:

Black people will never own a successful business in Jamaica. We are like crabs in a barrel. As soon as one of us reaches the top, another drags him down....

...[our society] seems to be pre-occupied with becoming rich, not because we were taught by the americans to do likewise, but because of a cultural stigma where we seek to overcompensate our self worth more than to create wealth for the many...

I don't need to add more to this.

Xenocrates

June 29, 2005, 12:29 PM

Even as it concerns businesses the black man’s business gets the most criticism from fellow blacks and the least patronage.(As many of you have realized many blacks would rather see their fellow blacks suffer as they have come to prefer the idea of other races acheiving greater success many black people have a disease that cannot be cured badmine and grudge which is usually focused on their fellow people)

- I agree 100%. I couldn't have said it better myself. :eusa_clap

Yes sometimes due to the fact that the black man’s prices are higher because he does not have the capital to purchase large quantities so as to get discounts from suppliers so that such savings can be brought to the consumer.

- Not true. A lecturer @ UTECH once told us that 90% of businesses in Jamaica FAIL even with an oversupplied capital, because the entrepreneurs are self-growth thinkers, rather than business growth thinkers. Like I said before, black people in this society are too egocentric. They don't think about how to grow the business. They are too busy figuring out how to get rich - in so doing, they eat out their own business and drive themselves into bankruptcy.

Generally however, in the same manner that many people believe imported goods are better it is in the same manner that we perceive light skinned people,whites and other non-black races and attributes to be better.

- Not quite. At the distribution level, imported goods are CHEAPER than locally manufactured goods. This is why their produce FLOODS the market far more effectively because of their low acquisition and distribution costs. This makes them more ubiquitous than local goods, hence heightening the sensation that "they are better".

A black man invented the refridgerator and iron and many seldom know this why I don’t have to spell it out if it were a white man we would have most likely learnt his name in school like the inventor of electricity who was white.

- A chiney man invented the Kite and Gun power. Indians invented curry and pioneered the use of silken raiment. Egyptians invented trigonometry and other more complex mathematical paradigms. The information is there for those who seek it. I learned all those things in school too. However, your example is a little flawed since:

The harnessing of electricity (electricity was invented by God) gave way to...
The invention of the elecrical iron (and every other electrical item)

...hence making it a far more important discovery (not invention). Furthermore, in most caucasian societies, the Clothing Press and Wash and Wear garments are more ubiquitous. Electrical Irons (and garments that need such things) flood markets of poorer nations where such luxuries would not achieve economies of scale. ;)

Xenocrates

June 29, 2005, 12:33 PM

As someone said people are bleaching as they feel and understandably so ignored and feel that their brown counterparts get more attention and feel the need to do something to get attention also. Instead of embracing themselves they are trying to imitate things like these should really be addressed in schools especially those in low-income areas.

- I agree. However, my concern is that a discussion of this sort will make the fair skinned people on the board feel discriminated against. Two of them are moderators. I think the concern of the thread starter is somewhat infantile for this reason. It would almost seem as if a great injustice was made against people of a darker complexion. If these people feel the need to bleach their skin, its a failure in their own thinking and the thinking of others around them which perpetuate that kind of mentality. Being dark skinned is not a disability.

Case in point: When I was at St. George's College, every evening we were inundated with girls from Immaculate. RARELY were any of them were brown skinned or white girls (those girls are quickly whisked home by their super-security conscious rich parents). When these girls come over for ICF meetings or Key Club, the white males in our group bonded with these dark skinned girls.

Today - many years later, 4 of these guys have MARRIED black women. I have another white male friend who lives in Stony Hill who has been dating a black girl for the last 6 years... they are currently engaged to be married.

AGAIN, I say, if black women feel that the colour of their skin is a disability, that's a FAILURE of their own thinking capacity. You guys are only seeing the coin from one side. Flip it over and look again.

Black women should not be so narrow minded. There's always balance in the universe.

About the preference thing in some instances no, but some people men and women deliberately go for light-skinned or as some people put it “high-colour” people

- And there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it.

(I despise the phrase.What really makes their colour high when I heard the Director of Personnel of a government ministry use the phrase I cringed you would think he or she would have emancipated themselves tsk tsk.) because they want someone to carry them off the fact that brown and white is better is in their subconscious so it is natural to desire persons like that without realizing the true reasons for that.

- I agree 100% :eusa_clap Ignorance is a disease.

If we were to state instances of inferiority and slavery in other countries and between other races the thread would become off-topic. We are dealing with as the title states “..black…… in Jamaica”

- I disagree. The thread is borne out of the narrowminded view of one person. That kind of mentality is what leads to racism! I will share with you one thing that I shared with my TechJamaica people in the past:

Thinking outside of the box doesn't consitute going off-topic. People are too afraid of thinking differently, because we are stuck to believing the nonsensical evil that we feel we must stick to.

Anyway I could write much more but im tired.

- I would be surprised if you weren't. :icon_mrgr :p

As Lisa20 and others have stated there is indeed a problem with being black and living in Jamaica.

- And the problem lies with us. We should stop pointing fingers at everyone else and look into our own frailties for answers. Black people should stop getting so hung up about the shade of their skin tone. It's a narrowminded way to think.

Has anyone noticed in Jamaica it is the minorities that control wealth and the economy and in the USA it’s the reverse hmmm.

- I don't know if you realise that you're contridicting an earlier point you attempted to make, but I'll let sleeping dogs lie. :icon_mrgr

Good debate Kim. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/xenocrates/Smilies/thumb.gif

Manu

June 30, 2005, 12:26 AM

Damn Xeno....what a response...sheesh......LONG MAN!

I do think that your stating of the thread starter being narrow minded (albeit true)...is setting the tone for flaming....since this person is indeed so narrow minded. Better ways to get your poitn across....you taught me that ;)

virus_ncu

June 30, 2005, 12:37 AM

What? LOL. Oh my... Kim, i hope you did'nt saw the respoinse and ran away in shame.

LadyMC

June 30, 2005, 02:31 AM

I don't think it's all based on slavery.

It's black men that are supposedly discriminating against black women. What about white men dating and marrying black women? If it were an inferiority complex solely based on slavery, I would imagine that white men willing to be with black women would eliminate that mind set... and vice versa

I think we're just using slavery as an excuse, because we couldn't think of any other reason for our way of thinking. It's an easy little escape route.... "it's all the white man's fault".

nuhsenutten

June 30, 2005, 03:40 AM

-

- I concur. My attempt was to however show that the entire topic is moot, since black people aren't the only people who suffer from this problem. It's a world wide issue (hence why I highlighted the Asians).

think we should use this to realise that we are actually better off than other minorities. while they are making the best out of their situation while we still talking bout something that started 400+ yrs ago

- And I agree. This is what I was alluding to. This has been going on for HUNDREDS of years. Did you realise that it was BLACK PEOPLE who sold THEIR OWN KIND into slavery? If we all knew that, we'd stop hating white people for just one second and realise that slavery in the Caribbean was initially OUR FAULT

graet point man .....stop blaming the wgite man .....
to this day black ppl still selling out each other...to get ahead
we need to stop this foolishness.........

damn man thats a hell of a response still.........how long it take u to post those messages

Manu

June 30, 2005, 03:49 PM

Correction....slavery was abolished 200-300 years ago....but it lasted 400+ years....hope I'm right......what a hell if i'm wrong :icon_redf

Xenocrates

June 30, 2005, 08:36 PM

I think we're just using slavery as an excuse, because we couldn't think of any other reason for our way of thinking. It's an easy little escape route.... "it's all the white man's fault".

- I agree. I couldn't have said it better myself. :eusa_clap

:icon_arro Manu

Point taken, on both accounts. ;) And yes, you're perfectly right about the slavery bit.

:icon_arro The Length of My Response

When you got som'n to say, best say it and not just think it. Her response to the issue was a long one. There was a lot to clear up, and each issue was addressed. I'm meticulous like that.

Kimberly

July 1, 2005, 01:17 AM

Xenocrates, firstly let me address your first response about grammar and sentence structure.Right here I had my academic acheivements but again since I dont have anything to prove to Xenocrates or nyone else for the fact of that matter, I have deleted them. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence and my command of the English Language. In many instances the Director of Personnel that I referred to previously calls me to go over speeches,find ice-breakers,vet things etc.
Now I am conversing online, with strangers the environment of this website is not a formal one; as such I do not feel the need to pay careful attention to my sentence structure and other language factors. Unlike you I do feel the need to gain the awe of fellow members of websites due to the display of areas of my knowledge (which in many instances are un-warranted and off-topic) many of them are like the useless fact of the day kind of thing.Many people do not pay careful attention to language etc when the setting is informal. In many informal settings involving persons with a good grasp of the English Language patois is used.
This site is one where persons should feel free to discuss things in a manner where grammar isn’t scrutinized. I think this point was brought across in its name caribYARD,this is how I speak and write informal documents such as e-mails and how I speak at my yard. If I wanted to have people pming me about the meaning of words and to explain to them historical happenings, I would right in much the same manner you have. I seek to gain the understanding of everyone on sites thus my manner of speaking is such that most everyone can interpret.
If as you have you have difficulty reading posts that don’t utilize commas etc then why bother to participate on websites. You would be surprised to hear certain ministers ( one of whom was my former neighbour) whilst playing dominoes or informally socializing.
Are you really bringing up spelling, you do know of human error and if I had as much time as you apparently have on your hands I would go through all of your posts and highlight spelling errors. In lengthy posts spelling errors are almost guaranteed.
You are trying to impress and have apparently succeeded to an extent and in addition trying to embarrass members.That's your style I thought your comment to a member of "get over it" was rude when she has made a valid point. Everyone knows you can read the post but you are trying to come across as being an intellectual God. I wonder if this is even remotely the case. With attitudes like your own its no wonder Lisa20 called it a day. Even though some of her statements were a bit foolish.
Now you have given your “advice” about grammar and language. Now here is some “advice” increasingly everyday people from all walks of life are getting familiar and participating online. Many of these people simply leave others in the dust when it comes to comparisons of wealth, assets and achievements educational or otherwise. Many of them seek to unwind and leave grammar etc to reality using anonymity to pretty much say anything they want anyway they want. So don’t jump to conclusions or attempt to criticize as you simply don’t know to whom you are conversing with.
Clearly I am Jamaican thus again I am usually interested in Jamaican oriented topics online. Im black so im primarily interested in black interest topics the slavery of a,b,c,d,….z broadens one’s knowledge but is not my primary interest. Don’t attempt to tell me my issues.
I find many people's internet persona laughable. I use the word internet because like online predators people come online knowing very well no one knows them so they seek to paint themselves in intellectual, angelic and a host of other lights.You have others that have nauseating personalities that feel the need to tell everyone online and otherwise their acheivements etc you strike me as that type.
I am a very busy individual I don’t come online frequently and I certainly don’t have the time to engage in online flaming. In addition I simply don’t have the time to decipher lengthy posts and then monitor the responses back and forth. My viewpoint is simple slavery has largely contributed to the lack of opportunities available to black people; the effects of slavery are still felt today and discrimination and racism which are a major result of slavery aids in the fostering of the inferiority complex.
This in turn has led to many black people bleaching as many people prefer light-skinned people simply because black is inferior to white and light is closer to white.
I think that should be simple enough for anyone to understand.
Virus_NCU surely you know that you can look for my name in the members list and see the time of my last online activity. This is the first time I have come online since the previous post in this thread. Lol at your comment about me running away in SHAME.
Ive shown one of my friend’s this thread and she was simply laughing ,I will refrain from participating in this thread after this post.Im a firm believer of quiting while im ahead. I understood and many have understood with ease the points the thread starter was trying to convey but instead have sought to inch the thread off-topic whilst berating others views.

You have quoted my statement of I am black so really I am more interested in engaging in a black discussion as the title states.

Your response
- It is thinking like this that eventually leads to prejudice and subsequently racism. It might not happen in your case, but the potential is there. It is women like you who despise brothers who hook up with white women or fair skinned girls who acquire more male attention. All I was saying previously, was that it is highly immature to become so hung up on the colour of our skin. That's a mentality that is borne out of inferior self perception. Black people should STOP thinking like that.

“Its women like me…” remember my previous advice of being careful what you say to people since you don’t know who you are speaking to. Now are you saying that I despise my father who has taught me valuable life lessons and has aided in numerous ways. When I read this I simply laughed. I am black, but a light skinned black. My father is very dark, my mother is fair. The only thing immature here are you assumptions and classifications of people as well as you trying to psycho-analyze them. It is through him that I can understand the plight of many incidentally he is an Attorney-at-law so no he isn’t blaming his extremely dark completion and racism on his position in life. Nor was he blaming whites and light-skinned people when he had nothing but he can surely relate to those who do especially in the United States.
Let me again relate a story I heard regarding a well known light skinned family. This family has a son who attends a school abroad, one of the professors used him as an example in a discussion referring to him as black which he is; the boy took offense corrected the professor and told him he was white when other members of the class snickered etc. he cried and the school had to write the parents and I believe he is now going to or trying to get accepted to another school. *clears throat*
In addition you are really not in a position to tell anyone how to think, especially myself.
Go and preach this gospel to the inner-city youth if you want to gain some REAL recognition;but you would have to modify the message as they primarily blame the government for their misfortunes.
I hear you speaking of disabilities due to skin colour etc.
You are not speaking to a down on her face dark girl who is blaming things on slavery.
My skin colour is not a disability neither is the skin colour of dark skinned blacks who would agree with many of my points.Right here I had listed some of my assets but decided against it. I had deemed these things necessary to post because your response is extremely condescending and as such I find several aspects of the post and its overall tone insulting. However, many people may think I am lying and showing off and I would have to upload pics which I dont want to and is difficult for me to do.
I get the feeling that this guy believes that I have had a hard life and I am blaming my misfortunes on whites and light skinned people. So I thought I should clear up a few things for him, but it may rub some people the wrong way.
In regards to the statement made by your Utech professor many of these people should really own their own business before they speak. Fortunately, I have owned a newborn clothing store and plan to venture into another area soon. I wont bother to state what my dark skinned father who I know would agree with most of my points owns or his investor friend from England also darked skinned or his carpenter friend again dark skinned.

Kimberly

July 1, 2005, 01:19 AM

Quote
And I agree. This is what I was alluding to. This has been going on for HUNDREDS of years. Did you realise that it was BLACK PEOPLE who sold THEIR OWN KIND into slavery? If we all knew that, we'd stop hating white people for just one second and realise that slavery in the Caribbean was initially OUR FAULT

Oh I see, I should blame the black people in Africa that sold the slaves to the Europeans who made billions from the expoitation,abuse and tortured of blacks. Some of these billions that have actually helped founded white businesses etc while blacks in Africa are still poor as dirt. I am sure you read my statement about primitive people. Did you do Caribbean History? Well I did, if you did the subject or even conversed with some people on the topic they would tell you the Africans the whites were a people they had never seen. They in a sense believed them to be God etc these Africans were far less intelligent that African today or ourselves today. That is a totally different era many people who today are blaming Africans for slavery would have probably sold their fellow people to whites as well in that time period.
The whites showed them shiny trinkets etc and with the effect of these shiny never-before seen objects (trinkets and the white people) met all of the whites requests.
So if blacks are to be blamed then Rodney King, Yusef Hawkins, Malice Green and Latasha Harlins should not blame the whites and other races who have abused them they should blame their ancestors.I understand,if the Africans had not sold them to the Europeans many Caucasians today wouldnt abuse them because they are ******s and inferior. In the case of Yusef Harlins he was shot by an Asian…you know how it is black people are dirt. Where did this largely mentality come from-slavery.
Unfortunately this ludicrous statement has reduced me to sarcasm-the lowest form of wit.

Job prospects are dim for them in the USA if you have a black name ex. Laquisha Spencer or Romaine Powell don’t expect to get that job because before they see your face and analyze your qualifications youre gone

You're generalizing - fallaciously at that. Apparently you've never heard of "white trash". There are white folks in the US who can't get a job because they live in a trailer park. What's your point?

Again this is you taking statements from one extreme to the next. Clearly they are some legitimately rich blacks such as the owner of Hawkins Food Group in America, Anthony Hawkins, who is a billionaire. The point of this is to bring forward a point of discrimination that has stemmed from slavery. In comparison to whites on the same level job prospects are dim for blacks. For example if a white girl that lives in a trailer park home and a black girl that lives in a trailer park home applies for a job as office attendant in a white law firm. Chances are the white girl will get it.
Level also encompasses factors such as tattoos, dyed hair etc. As I know you will get ridiculously technical and state perhaps why the white girl got the job is because she black girl probably had quite a few tattoos and the white girl didn’t.
IN SOME instances they don’t get that job not every …isha,..quada is unemployed. However, we could debate the quality of their jobs compared to the jobs of whites with similar qualifications.
“Do myself a favour google up…” Google is not my encyclopedia thank you very much :) and I am very much acquainted with historical happenings.

That must mean that every racism debate is borne out if ignorance because black people are to be blamed for slavery and oppression more so than whites.

Another difficult to read sentence...anywho...

...This is still an inferiority complex. Explain to me then why other races did not worship the Egyptians who were technologically superior to them, although they were much darker in complexion than other races further south on the continent or futher west?

The Greeks were caucasians. Yet many Greek Philosophers travelled to Egypt and adapted their mathematical teachings without worshipping the Egyptians. In fact, the Pythagoras' Theorem is EGYPTIAN MADE. He said it himself.

Another example; The Medes and Persians are darker in complexion than the Greeks. Alexander the Great was not white (as the movie depicts) - Yet he and his army CONQUERED GREECE, which is populated by caucasians! Interestingly enough, he was taught by a Caucasian: Aristotle! He didn't let the colour of his skin (or his wayward sexuality) stop him from being the greatest conqueror in World History.

I could name many more examples... but I think you get the point

I think the answer to this is simple the Greeks were more intelligent than races such as the Arawaks.

The answer is simple as a result of slavery the white man has/had deemed himself superior and many people view whites as such.

Incorrect. The war between Japan and China had been going on for centuries before the white man was smart enough to think that the world was round. Therefore, it is impossible that the white man's slavery could have caused this effect.
You do realize that I spoke about the enforcing of one races culture on another-ethnocentrism. I did not state that the whites enslaved anyone from any of the Asain continents. I stated that as a result of slavery many of them believe that they are superior in everyway and as such when they sought to impose for example many of their cultural tendencies on the Japanese and Chinese. The debate likely began. We have seen this in Jamaica. None of us were enslaved but due to the effects of slavery many of us bleach, then many of the people who bleach curse dark skinned persons that they are too black.
The whites have enslaved countless numbers of races and forced their seemingly better culture on many.

You make it seem as though the caucasians were the only race to enslave another. Persians enslaved greeks and other races, including negroes and Indians. The Egyptians enslaved the Hebrew. In the case of the Egyptians, they were darker in complexion to their Medo-Persian complexion Hebrew slaves. Again, this point is moot.

Yawn. I refer to whites as they enslaved blacks the topic of this thread. Whites enslaving blacks for the sugar, coffee, cotton and indigo trades is the largest documented case of slavery in history. I didnt say that whites were the only race to enslave another, they are the only race to enslave such a large number of people from a race and the only race that have enslaved so many different races.

- Get your story straight. If his bodyguard hadn't started the race argument ("oh, it's because I'm black"), Em would not have resigned to using the expression "nigga" in the first place. Em doesn't consider the color of his skin when doing his thing as a hindrance. In fact, he's made countless inferences to "White America" and how they treat him differently from his black rap counterparts because he is white. If Eminem considered himself to be superior to black folks, then tell me this:

Why OH WHY would Em continue to sign BLACK ARTISTES to his Shady Label?
__________________

At the time Eminem’s bodyguard had not started a race argument it was after Eminem made that statement that the bodyguard started the “race argument” In case you didn’t know several racist tapes made by Eminem have been uncovered. By the way very few people can tell me to get my facts straight concerning urban music I have over 200 original rap,hip hop and r&b cds and a few lps. Countless magazines. I have a portion of information on Bad Boy records, DeathRow Records and AfterMath all companies are related to Eminem.I have researched countless celebrities including Eminem.

This is a portion of the racist lyrics of course many ‘forgiving’ blacks believe the lyrics are nothing its just lyrics when he was upset at a black girlfriend none of friends knew him to date.

Kimberly

July 1, 2005, 01:24 AM

I make music to make you sick of fake music,
Hate music like devil worship and Satan music.”

“I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley to do Black music so selfishly
And use it to get myself wealthy.”

Foolish Pride
Black girls and white girls just don’t mix
Because Black girls are dumb and white girls are good chicks
White girls are good; I like white girls
I like white girls all over the world
White girls are fine and they blow my mind
And that’s why I’m here now telling you this rhyme
’Cause Black girls, I really don’t like
We don’t mix, it’s like riding a bike
When you’re peddling hard, uphill both ways
You know it’s kinda hard and that’s why I say to you
I’m giving you a little advice
Don’t date a Black girl, if you do it once you won’t do it twice
You won’t ever do it again because they’ll take your money
And that aint funny
So I’ma say look honey
I thought he said that before
But like I said again you’re nothing but a big whore
So when mike catch on the bass line
That’s okay ‘cause we will not just waste time

I’ll get straight to the point
Black girls are *****es, that’s why I’ma tell ya you better pull up your britches
‘Cause all that cash is making your *** drag

Why OH WHY would Em continue to sign BLACK ARTISTES to his Shady Label?

This must be a rhetorical question. The answer is simple money. Jimmy Iovine who is the CEO of Interscope is racist. He actually signed G-Unit since it’s a division of Shady. Why oh why did white people over the globe consume sugar that was produced by blacks by their sweat and blood during slavery? People that they considered dirt (evidenced by their complexion), I surely would not want anything as filthy as dogs producing anything for me especially something I am going to consume. Its because they served to gain from such a consumption just as how Jimmy Iovine and Eminem serve to gain from signing popular underground black artistes.

In Jamaica looking at the movers and shakers they are usually light skinned,white or of Syrian descent Audrey Marks and Aubyn Hill are just a few black people on the economic scene.

- So what? Is that to say that black people can't have successful businesses too? Let's illustrate something here for a second:

How white people think:

- I will sacrifice anything necessary for the business to survive using the smartest means necessary.

How Asian People think:

- I will never work for anyone else but myself. I will sacrifice anything necessary to feed my family.

How Indian/Syrian people think:

- I will go into any form of business where the returns for maximum growth exist.

How black people think:

- I will get rich or die trying. I'll only start a business to feed myself, or get rich, whichever comes first.

A recent survey done by the University of Technology (2004 - 2005) showed a VERY DISTINCT correlation between:

So you know how they all think-the worst form of generalizing. I didn’t say black people cant have a successful businesses, im highlighting the fact that the level of success of black businesses is lower than that of white businesses with specific reference to the United States. The USA has more whites than blacks therefore more whites patronize more white businesses. Im much the same manner that in the USA there are about 10 Scott Peterson type murders concerning black females a month but Scott Peterson got the most media coverage for the better part of last year and this year. The Peterson's are white its going to attract better nationwide coverage. A black story like that a lot of whites are going to say "black so what." Therefore advertisers lose money, the stations lose money and ratings dip.

Not true. A lecturer @ UTECH once told us that 90% of businesses in Jamaica FAIL even with an oversupplied capital, because the entrepreneurs are self-growth thinkers, rather than business growth thinkers. Like I said before, black people in this society are too egocentric. They don't think about how to grow the business. They are too busy figuring out how to get rich - in so doing, they eat out their own business and drive themselves into bankruptcy

“Not true. A lecturer @ UTECH once told us that” Were you the same guy talking about immaturity. IN A CHILDISH VOICE “NOT TRUE. MOMMY TOLD ME…” Am I to assume that everything that is said or written by professors and scholars is gospel?
I was a business owner and know several business owners many cant think about expansion as they don’t have enough capital. The major reason for the failure of many businesses is due to the fact that they are forced out of the market by large superstores; that are household names which have the ability to offer goods cheaper than most small businesses.

Generally however, in the same manner that many people believe imported goods are better it is in the same manner that we perceive light skinned people,whites and other non-black races and attributes to be better.

Not quite. At the distribution level, imported goods are CHEAPER than locally manufactured goods. This is why their produce FLOODS the market far more effectively because of their low acquisition and distribution costs. This makes them more ubiquitous than local goods, hence heightening the sensation that "they are better".
You are making no sense. In Jamaica MANY people subscribe to the belief that cheap goods are inferior. Therefore if price were a deciding factor as it concerns the quality of imported goods specifically from the United States people would deem goods produced in the United States as inferior; this is not the case.

If you are going to state God invented electricity then God invented everything by creating us.

As someone said people are bleaching as they feel and understandably so ignored and feel that their brown counterparts get more attention and feel the need to do something to get attention also. Instead of embracing themselves they are trying to imitate things like these should really be addressed in schools especially those in low-income areas.

I agree. However, my concern is that a discussion of this sort will make the fair skinned people on the board feel discriminated against. Two of them are moderators. I think the concern of the thread starter is somewhat infantile for this reason. It would almost seem as if a great injustice was made against people of a darker complexion. If these people feel the need to bleach their skin, its a failure in their own thinking and the thinking of others a