Gays: Are they Humans Too

[Lisa20]

In your opinion: Are Gays Humans Too?

[Chris]

Yes gays are humans. It's their activities/lifestyle that are wrong and needs changing.

[Arch_Angel]

Answer these questions and maybe you can answer that question yourself:

Are criminals humans?
Are muderers, terrorists, serial-rapists, thieves humans?

As Chris said, it's thier activities/lifestyle that are wrong and needs changing.

[Greatis]

Well almost everyone would say that they are humans... it's just what has been said by Arch and Chris... Their lifestyle is wayout...

[Gillion]

Thats a strange question. The nazis asked that question too.... are JEWS human.... before that it was the Spaniards... are the Blacks in Africa Human, are the Indians in the "New World" Human. Whenever we ask that question it tends to point at very fundamental ignorance and fears....

So my question is.... why that question ? planining genocide are we ?

[Chris]

Gillion the "conspiracy-theorist" ;)

[RobyG]

I agree with Chris,
they are human but their lifestyle is wrong.

Gillion's comments always amazes me.

[Arch_Angel]

But one would ask the question, who says thier lifestyle is wrong? Who decides that?
If you say the Bible says its wrong, then who says they should follow the Bible? They aren't christians or religious. So why should they follow what the Bible says?

[Chris]

Reasonable question Arch. My response however is that a homosexual lifestyle isn't natural, meaning, other living creatures all require an opposite (sex) to procreate/reproduce. So one may choose either a religious or non-religious response, either way, it's still very wrong.

[Greatis]

well it is known that the hiena males do sometimes mess around :icon_frow food for thought ;)

[Gillion]

Whats really going to bake the gizzada, is the fact that nothing in nature says Women and Men should CHOOSE a particular sexual orientation. Nothing. It is all a matter of survival, cause and effect.

--gillion

[BlackCryptoKnight]

But one would ask the question, who says thier lifestyle is wrong? Who decides that?

God says it is wrong. The Bible just records/reports what he has ordained.

He says homosexuality is an abomination:

Leviticus 18:22 KJV

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

He says non-repentant homosexuals, among other non-repentant sinners, will not make it to Heaven:

I Corinthians 6:9-10


9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.



If you say the Bible says its wrong, then who says they should follow the Bible? They aren't christians or religious. So why should they follow what the Bible says?

There are gays who are religious and are Christians. These people should be true to their Christian beliefs and follow the principles of their beliefs as should all Christians. This would mean turning away from homosexuality.

God gave us the freedom of choice. We can listen to Him, or we can chose not to. He advises us to follow His word and tells us of the benefits of doing so, and He advises us of the consequences of choosing not to. He doesn't force us to chose Him.

So why should non-Christian gays follow what the Bible says about homosexuality? Because God promises that following His word leads to life eternal, and going against it, leads to certain eternal death.

Romans 6:23 KJV

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[RobyG]

But one would ask the question, who says thier lifestyle is wrong? Who decides that?
If you say the Bible says its wrong, then who says they should follow the Bible? They aren't christians or religious. So why should they follow what the Bible says?

Well, It comes back to the fact that each one of us have our own belief system which is formed by our upbringing, experiences and perceptions. Now for each of us we use it as a measuring stick to judge what is right and what is wrong. Christians like myself submit to the teachings of Christ and use the bible as our guideline because we have seen where it has had positive impact in our personal lives. My belief system works for me and adds the pep to my life. So when the bible speaks out against homosexuality, Christians would naturally follow and obviously encourage others to follow.

From a medical point of view, doctors would agree that the homosexual act goes against the very makeup of the human body and tend to promote illnesses and diseases.

So saying it is wrong or even bad will be based on conclusions each one of us have come to whether scientifically, emotionally or spiritually.

At the end of the day, each one of us is accountable for our own livs including the things we do. "If" the bible is true, then God makes up the rules and certain things are clearcut right or wrong whether we want to believe it or not.

[Lisa20]

In my opinion Gays are Humans. The reason for this questions was because there as been a lot of discussions in the media concerning Gays. People talk about them as if there are Animals but they are not, there lifestyle might be wrong according to the Bible but I don't think that we should discriminate against them.

Look at it people don't lash out against Lesbians............ anymore that is, don't you wonder why???????? Now a days u don't hear people bashing woman to woman but let them know a Gay and then u happen to hear the next story.

Simple, as I said Gays are humans too and I don't believe that we should publicly humiliate anyone founding to be one.
:D

[DancehallDiva]

Nelson Mandela and Archbishop Desmond Tutu have both said that homophobia is as bad as racism.

Jamaica's law's on homosexuality come from the colonial era. Isn't it time for Jamaica to join the 21st Century?

[BlackCryptoKnight]

If we are all to live by God's law, then nobody should be abused or hurt because of what they do. This means that violence against a person because he is gay, should not happen.

However, I am disturbed by many of the arguments floating around regarding "tolerance" of homosexuality. It is as if homosexuals want everyone to accept that abnormal behaviour as just another "alternative lifestyle". They want people to believe that there is nothing wrong with it.
I don't agree with that.

If Jamaica's buggery laws keep gays from flaunting their abnormal behaviour out in the open and warping the minds of our youth, then I say keep the laws. Society needs to send the message clearly that homosexuality is wrong.

[Greatis]

Nelson Mandela and Archbishop Desmond Tutu have both said that homophobia is as bad as racism.

Jamaica's law's on homosexuality come from the colonial era. Isn't it time for Jamaica to join the 21st Century?

well to answer your question Diva. how can I put this NO... I would be happy to still retain the colonial culture in this sense...

However food for thought, if this law is passed there will be wide spread beatings of homosexuals ;) Remember Jamaican men are homophobic

[DancehallDiva]

"the lady doth protest too much"

It's usually those who appear most homophobic that are the ones with most to hide.

Are Jamaican men really so insecure about their own sexuality?

[Gillion]

"the lady doth protest too much"

It's usually those who appear most homophobic that are the ones with most to hide.

Are Jamaican men really so insecure about their own sexuality?

Lol

Everytime I hear that question posed I laugh.... it is a one dimensional question attacking a multi-dimesional problem.

Here is a question that is really going to bake you noodle.

Can a woman RAPE a man ?

Can you wrap your mind or immagination around such an act ? Can you empathise with it ?

If you can, does it horrify you as much as the concept of a Man raping a Woman ?

Be honest...

If that man was laying on the street naked and crying after being attacked and sexually abused by a woman would you be as compasionate as if it were a woman of the same age ? Who would you empathise with more ? Why ?

What if he were in his 30's and the rapist was a woman in her 20's ? What would you think of him ? How about his "manliness" ? You would question it wouldn't you ?

If he goes to the police and reports it... what would be the most likely response ? something like this ? :icon_lol: right ?

If a man gets battered by his wife... especially if he is physically bigger than her but he is still in that relationship... what would you think of that man... would you accord him the SAME compassion as you would a Woman ?

If a male priest molests children of ANY gender, would you be able to stomach such behaviour ? What if it were a female priest doing the same act to MALE boys ? How does that honestly strike you and how do you think it would strike most people ?

There is a trial of a Female teacher in the states right now.

She had sex with a male student. People know the young boys name. Now if it were a MALE teacher that had sex with a young gir,l of the same age as the boy.... he would be villified... lynched... castrated with blunt tools, lol, in fact you wouldn't know the girls name would you ?

Right now people have been pouring out compasion to the Female teacher in the case.... the same WOULDN'T happen to a man would it ? Why ?

Empathy is very important in being able to understand....

In order for Jamaicans to understand and accept homosexuals, we have to empathise with them and that is something most yardies will not do because it means opening up and giving your mind over to understanding what they do and what they like. This goes against the religous teaching of the dominant religion on the island but also against the dominant MACHO culture on the island.

Yardies simply cannot and will not empathise with homsexuals.

Why ?

The words NASTY come to mind immediately.... I mean your dealing with a society that still has issues with heterosexual oral sex and kissing in public let alone something as repulsive as anal sex.

The immagination is a powerful thing and necessary in order for people to be able to RELATE with something and what will normally happen when you bring up the concept of homosexual behaviour in the Jamaican context is REVULSION
People cannot RELATE with it.

The Jamaican homophobic question has nothing to with being insecure about their own sexuality. It as a matter of rejecting the empathy necessary for acceptance. The idea is repuslive.

Please note that Jamaican men AND WOMEN are not sickened by Lesbian behaviours as much as the "masculine" GAY behaviour. In fact there are quite a few Go-Go clubs that have girl on girl action as a regular entertainment package. Blue movies reflect this tendency as well.

A double standard ?

Yes.

But in the context of empathy... it is understandable...or understood... because people can imagine it and it pleases a few, ergo it is mentally and physically pallatable and acceptable and not seen as a problem.

I hope I helped.

--regards
Gillion

[RobyG]

It's usually those who appear most homophobic that are the ones with most to hide.

Are Jamaican men really so insecure about their own sexuality?

I don't think its a matter of insecurity....the way I see it its like second-hand smoking.

Many people do not like being close to a person who is puffing away on a cigarette especially when they are both sharing the same space (eg in a restaurant, etc). Now although they are not the ones doing the smoking we all know that others around can be affected by it. As a matter of fact many people get cancer from second-hand smoking.

Homosexuality in one way is like second hand smoking. Just because others are doing it doesn't mean that I (and my children) won't be affected by it. IMHO The more any society accepts the homo life style, the more people will move away from the purpose that they were created...and things get weird.

So Jamaican men react the way they do because they dont want any man looking on them...it brings on a sense of them feeling threatened...uncomfortable because they can never tell what the other man is thinking and also it just 'seems' wrong and nasty to them....it stirs up a defensive mechanism within them.

BTW Lesbianism is just as wrong but funny enough as you mentioned many men have no problem with that. Why? because they dont feel as threatened...it doesn't involve them...it doesn't necessarily affect their comfort zone.

At the end of the day i think anyone cursing homosexuality need to also curse murder, rape, adultery, embezzlement, etc. and fight against what they believe is wrong with the same passion.

[DancehallDiva]

LOL!

You can't catch "homosexuality". You either are or you aren't it's not something you have a choice about.



BTW Lesbianism is just as wrong but funny enough as you mentioned many men have no problem with that. Why? because they dont feel as threatened...it doesn't involve them...it doesn't necessarily affect their comfort zone.


I think that answers my question about insecurity.

I'd suggest that rather than attack homosexual people who are consenting adults anyway energies would be better directed at rapists (male or female) and child molestors (male or female) which Jamaica has it's fair share of. School bus drivers having sex with 13 year old girls are the ones that should be harassed and beaten in my humble opinion

[Nastro]

LOL!

You can't catch "homosexuality". You either are or you aren't it's not something you have a choice about.



I think that answers my question about insecurity.

I'd suggest that rather than attack homosexual people who are consenting adults anyway energies would be better directed at rapists (male or female) and child molestors (male or female) which Jamaica has it's fair share of. School bus drivers having sex with 13 year old girls are the ones that should be harassed and beaten in my humble opinion



Listen..............Show me your friends and I will show you who you are.


Nothing further Your Honour.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

LOL!

You can't catch "homosexuality". You either are or you aren't it's not something you have a choice about.

This is the biggest LIE being perpetuated by the homosexual community. This is the argument they try to use to gain the same acceptance as just being another race. You most definitely can chose not to be a homosexual. Just as how you can chose not to be a rapist or a child molestor.

People face temptations of different kinds every day. For some, it is stealing. For some, it is lust. For some it is substance abuse. We all have the choice not to give in to temptation. That is precisely why Jesus came to earth as a human like us, to show us, that living a life without sin is possible, once you walk closely with God.



I think that answers my question about insecurity.

Someone does not need to be insecure to speak out against behaviour that is abnormal and morally (and legally in Jamaica) wrong.



I'd suggest that rather than attack homosexual people who are consenting adults anyway energies would be better directed at rapists (male or female) and child molestors (male or female) which Jamaica has it's fair share of. School bus drivers having sex with 13 year old girls are the ones that should be harassed and beaten in my humble opinion

People shouldn't attack anybody, they should attack the problems. Homosexuality is just one of the problems. People are speaking out against the others you mentioned as well. In any case, violence isn't the answer to anything.

[Gillion]

why is this such a problem ? we have so many other nasty problems in JA. Personally I say forget the fags and focus on the real problems like the break down in FAMILY VALUES.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I see the issue of todays increasing acceptance and even glamourization of homosexuality in the media as a direct attack on family values. When you can have 2 homosexuals talking about their right to adopt a child and raise a family, family values are under direct assault.

[DancehallDiva]

Nonsense!

What "family values" are you referring too?

A child is best raised in a loving home. The sexuality of the parents doesn't guarantee that.

How many children brought up by heterosexual parents are abused emotionally or physically?

How many children (particularly in Jamaica) have a Father that stays around long enough anyway?

[Chris]

Yes you're correct DancehallDiva that a child is best raised in a loving home with their mother AND father. There have also been abusive heterosexual parent(s), but that doesn't mean that the heterosexual parental unit isn't the way to go ;)

[Greatis]

I actually can't believe my ears oh eyes sorry. :eusa_sick a homosexual family raising a child? I want to know something, especially from DanceHall Diva. Is homosexuality morally, spiritually or naturally correct?

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Nonsense!

What "family values" are you referring too?

Monogamy between husband and wife. A stable nuclear family structure with mother, father and children. Children being brought up with good moral and spiritual guidance from their parents.



A child is best raised in a loving home. The sexuality of the parents doesn't guarantee that.


A child is best raised in a loving home where the parents provide a good example of what morally and spiritually correct living is about. When parents
knowlingly and openly engage in morally and spiritually irresponsible and incorrect behaviour, it sends the message to the child that it's ok. They are then very likely to go out and do the same wrongs. Imagine if a child has parents who are drug abusers, or engage in prostitution, theft, or other criminal activities openly. It's the same effect. The child grows up with a distorted view of what life is supposed to be about.



How many children brought up by heterosexual parents are abused emotionally or physically?

Too many.
How many people get introduced to homosexuality as children because they were molested by a homosexual adult? Plenty.



How many children (particularly in Jamaica) have a Father that stays around long enough anyway?

Quite a few. But absentee fathers is indeed an issue that needs to be addressed.

[MiTcHiE]

I cant believe this reach 3 pages. I myself hope that in the states they get around to banning the gay marriages, although most of the guys that have the votes are themselves gay. Whatever happens in the states will affect us sooner or later.

Imagine if everybody was gay. What would be the result in 100 years?? It has also been rumored that Aids was started by gays, although this is still up in the air. The Bible says its wrong, so y should we live in a society thats is clearly going against the Bible.(This is if they legalize this whole gay rubbish).

Tell me this, if u saw around 5 guys beating a guy because he was gay, would u feel compassion because it is a human?? Would u ask them to stop?? Would u be dissapointed?? Would u think that the 5 guys are barbaric in nature??

How would u react to witnessing this scenario???

Here is another scenario, suppose ur fren for years told u that he was gay(assuming ur a guy), would u and him still par?? How would u look at him now?? Would u think he is human???

[Greatis]

Goods question


How would u react to witnessing this scenario???

Probably walk by and laugh but not look twice.


Here is another scenario, suppose ur fren for years told u that he was gay(assuming ur a guy), would u and him still par?? How would u look at him now?? Would u think he is human???

Bwoy mi a tell you the truth mi probably would just stop talking to him still. Him can just forget bout our friendship :eusa_thin

Ok I am rethinking this one. A friend is a friend. I guess at first I would go through the phases but I don't think I would desert him.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Tell me this, if u saw around 5 guys beating a guy because he was gay, would u feel compassion because it is a human?? Would u ask them to stop?? Would u be dissapointed?? Would u think that the 5 guys are barbaric in nature??

How would u react to witnessing this scenario???

Violence is not the answer. Gays are human beings, even though their lifestyle is wrong. It is one thing to express disapproval of peoples actions, but we don't have the right to hurt or take a persons life.



Here is another scenario, suppose ur fren for years told u that he was gay(assuming ur a guy), would u and him still par?? How would u look at him now?? Would u think he is human???

He'd still be human. True friendship isn't about being there only when things are going well. It's about being there when things are rough. In a situation like that, a true friend would not turn his back on the guy, but would try and counsel him and help him to make the right choices. There may come a point when in order to protect yourself and/or your family from certain influences, that you may need to distance yourself from the person. But even then, a true friend would bear no ill will towards him and would still care about him as a friend.

[Lisa20]

I didn't know that there were so many intellectuals in Jamaica. I am like totally amazed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyways it is good to know that not many persons agree with Homosexualism but the question was Do u Think that they are HUMANS too not if it is right.

[Gillion]

sigh we keep quoting the bible ... but we need to realise that the bible is being challenged by gays and feminists... why ? it makes them uncomfortable. Thus the idea that its OUTDATED

How else can you have a gay bishop !!!!

So we best just let them be. Because every man will justify his actions.

Popes used to take virgins and then re-bless them as virgins.

Using biology... and morality.... those ideologies and concepts can't work either... I mean there are examples of "homosexuality" in animals.

We can't win.

These are the last days... we need to stop wasting our time with it and move on...

If people want to get married let them.... if they want freedom to do them ting let them.... why ?

WE CAN'T CHANGE IT UNLESS WE PLAN MASS GENOCIDE....

Hitler tried it... and we see how that turned out...

why discuss them ? forget the gays... and work on our screwed up HETEROSEXUAL society....

--gillion

[virus_ncu]

I agree left them alone, i just hope none is around me when god ready fi fling down fireball and burn them up.

[Cocoa]

Hot topic.....

FACT: Homosexuals are humans too, just like heterosexuals, metros or trans. I am not homophobic. I do not treat them any different from another human being just because of their sexual orientation.

OPINION: I do not support thier lifestyle, act or the 'union' between two people of the same sex. I do believe in the BIble and believe what it says regarding that behavior and other sins.

FINAL WORDS: Don't be offended if you are homophobic or a homosexual. I just say it all in love and with peace.

[Cocoa]

In order for Jamaicans to understand and accept homosexuals, we have to empathise with them and that is something most yardies will not do because it means opening up and giving your mind over to understanding what they do and what they like. This goes against the religous teaching of the dominant religion on the island but also against the dominant MACHO culture on the island.

Yardies simply cannot and will not empathise with homsexuals.

Why ?

The words NASTY come to mind immediately.... I mean your dealing with a society that still has issues with heterosexual oral sex and kissing in public let alone something as repulsive as anal sex.

The immagination is a powerful thing and necessary in order for people to be able to RELATE with something and what will normally happen when you bring up the concept of homosexual behaviour in the Jamaican context is REVULSION
People cannot RELATE with it.

The Jamaican homophobic question has nothing to with being insecure about their own sexuality. It as a matter of rejecting the empathy necessary for acceptance. The idea is repuslive.

Please note that Jamaican men AND WOMEN are not sickened by Lesbian behaviours as much as the "masculine" GAY behaviour. In fact there are quite a few Go-Go clubs that have girl on girl action as a regular entertainment package. Blue movies reflect this tendency as well.

A double standard ? Yes.

But in the context of empathy... it is understandable...or understood... because people can imagine it and it pleases a few, ergo it is mentally and physically pallatable and acceptable and not seen as a problem.



I think this is a very intelligent response. Mr G, you should be a public speaker. Very impressive and well said.

[Gillion]

I agree left them alone, i just hope none is around me when god ready fi fling down fireball and burn them up.

when last you have sex wid a girl and yuh nuh married to her ?
when last you tell a lie ?


what mek you tink jah nah bun up yuh likkle wara wara wid di funny man dem just because you have dat dirty nasty thought... just as dirty and nasty as dem behaviour ?

I don't see a difference.... do you ?

cool man and don't be silly.

--gillion

[MiTcHiE]

Interesting.............

[Greatis]

Lol

Everytime I hear that question posed I laugh.... it is a one dimensional question attacking a multi-dimesional problem.

Here is a question that is really going to bake you noodle.

Can a woman RAPE a man ?

Can you wrap your mind or immagination around such an act ? Can you empathise with it ?

If you can, does it horrify you as much as the concept of a Man raping a Woman ?

Be honest...

If that man was laying on the street naked and crying after being attacked and sexually abused by a woman would you be as compasionate as if it were a woman of the same age ? Who would you empathise with more ? Why ?

What if he were in his 30's and the rapist was a woman in her 20's ? What would you think of him ? How about his "manliness" ? You would question it wouldn't you ?

If he goes to the police and reports it... what would be the most likely response ? something like this ? :icon_lol: right ?

If a man gets battered by his wife... especially if he is physically bigger than her but he is still in that relationship... what would you think of that man... would you accord him the SAME compassion as you would a Woman ?

If a male priest molests children of ANY gender, would you be able to stomach such behaviour ? What if it were a female priest doing the same act to MALE boys ? How does that honestly strike you and how do you think it would strike most people ?

There is a trial of a Female teacher in the states right now.

She had sex with a male student. People know the young boys name. Now if it were a MALE teacher that had sex with a young gir,l of the same age as the boy.... he would be villified... lynched... castrated with blunt tools, lol, in fact you wouldn't know the girls name would you ?

Right now people have been pouring out compasion to the Female teacher in the case.... the same WOULDN'T happen to a man would it ? Why ?

--regards
Gillion

Well said Gillion...
:icon_neut

[Xenocrates]

Please note that Jamaican men AND WOMEN are not sickened by Lesbian behaviours as much as the "masculine" GAY behaviour. In fact there are quite a few Go-Go clubs that have girl on girl action as a regular entertainment package. Blue movies reflect this tendency as well.

A double standard ?

Yes.

But in the context of empathy... it is understandable...or understood... because people can imagine it and it pleases a few, ergo it is mentally and physically pallatable and acceptable and not seen as a problem.


Female on Female is not seen as repulsive for two reasons:


Women are not viewed with the same sense of status by both sexes. There is a certain female to male inferiority ratio that is understood and generally accepted by society. For example, most women would feel weird about a man staying at home and being the homemaker while they went out and brought in the bread. Women are generally (although reluctant to admit it) unattracted to men who do not exhibit a certain level of machismo or dominance in their personality (the same reason why nice guys never get any). So even though feminism or even cosmopolitanism is an up and coming method of thinking, psychologically, women will always resign themselves to thinking of men in a certain position of power when it comes to certain things. That's the way humans were genetically programmed.


Women are clearly more enjoyable to look at, even by other women who are heterosexual. Yes women like men who have certain masculine features. But every female, and I do mean EVERY female, that sees another female walk by with certain distinctive bodily features, will stare, uncontrollably, at that other female. It's not men alone that do it. That's why all of the most popular pageants are about women. Women were naturally designed to be more sophisticated, articulated, complicated, and more pleasant to the eyes, of both sexes, than males. That's just how God designed women. The sight of a beautiful woman is almost equally and mutually appreciated by both sexes. The nature of that appreciation is somewhat different for either sex, but the intensity is almost the same.

So do you realise that this is more of a psychological phenomenon of sexuality than it is about double standards?

How many of you realise that females can be just as homophobic as males? Do you realise that women are more readily able to admit that another girl looks sexy than men are? Men know full well when another male is attractive. They will refrain from openly admitting it however, because:

1. It adds a sense of weakness to the machismal expectation of inter-male perception (which is always interpreted to be something sexual in nature) and hence detracts from the comfort zone that men prefer to remain in with respect to each other. An over saturation of this perception is what leads to homophobia.

2. Such a perception is more readily seen as a fall from dominance, and thus remains a perception only females, generally seen as the weaker, fairer sex, are allowed to openly have.

This is by no means limitated by culture, as in virtually every modern society, the perception remains relatively ubiquitious. It's the same reason why women generally don't run for president of the United States. It's the same reason why men who don't have ambition are seen as the base of society by even teenaged girls who are too young to work. It's the same reason why young men who abandon their pregnant girlfriends or baby mothers are generally looked down upon even more so than a mother who abandons her child at a nursery. It's the same reason why homosexuals are seen as being more derelict and evil than lesbians.

The perception of the role that men should play in society is a hefty and a burdensome one. Deviation from these principles is generally unnacceptable and causes severe fluctuations in the very nature of society - even more so than deviations caused by women. Women are more likely to have lesbian thoughts than are men - again because generally speaking, even to other women, women are just more beautiful creatures.

With that said, it is easy to understand why male homosexuality is the more gruesomely perceived of the two psychosexual disorders. The fact is that the anatomical structure of a male perpetuates a sexual act that is far more grotesque to the senses in contrast to that of females. The lesbian act, by nature is far more tame and uninvolving than that of homosexuals. Again, going back to the original principle of the perception of women of each other, the lesbian act is therefore seen by society as being more suitable for entertainment purposes than that of the counterpart. This is the same reason why Miss World Pageants are hugely more popular and more successful than any other which is male-centric.

So I wouldn't necessarily argue that it's a double standard as much as it is a result of our natural design; and this is by no means limited to Jamaica.

[Cocoa]

First of all, I love the way you think and write. Very intelligent and open-minded as well great choise of words to explain your plight. However Mr X. I bet to differ with the statement made below.

I & I.....yes me! I do not be staring at no other women UNCONTROLLABLE. I love the way you put logic to paper to state your point but this here is not for EVERY woman. I'm different and I am sure there are some women out there who can say the same. If I have taken this piece of excert out of content, please enlighten my mind. Thanks.


Yes women like men who have certain masculine features. But every female, and I do mean EVERY female, that sees another female walk by with certain distinctive bodily features, will stare, uncontrollably, at that other female.

[Gillion]

Mi haffi gwaan bad now !!
So zeno... what you saying is that we have one set of rules for women and one set for men... den nuh double standad dat ?

Clear mi up man ... clear mi up... :)

[Xenocrates]

That's cool Jacocoabutter. One thing I always try to remember is that we're all entitled to our opinions and at the end of the day, we can always choose to agree to disagree. That's what in my opinion makes worthwile, intelligent and mature discussion. Besides, what's the point if we agreed all the time? ;)

However, I will ask you to consider the following and answer yourself truthfully. You are not required to answer here (unless ofcourse you choose to do so). Just consider these and be as honest with yourself as possible.

Have you ever seen a female enter the proximity of you and your guy friend, only to notice that he helplessly checks her out as she passes by, completely aloof to either of your presences, only to find yourself either checking out what she's got that would make him turn his head away from you momentarily. After beating the crap out of him, you might subsequently find yourself inclined to compare yourself to other females, subconsciously, analysing what differences they possess in their body that you don't, which you think would turn the head of your guy friend(s).


Assuming that you aren't white or of a mixed ethnicity, have you ever seen a young white or mixed female step into the room with either her midriff bare or in a short flair skirt sporting really great legs or really gorgeous long hair? How long do you find yourself noticing her?


Have you ever noticed a female with a certain vivacity about them, the kinda girls with gorgeous smiles, bright eyes, immaculate skin, and an explosive personality, that will make even married men who are helplessly in love with their own wives turn their heads and smile like little boys? When you see the kind of effect a girl like that has on the men in her immediate proximity, don't you find yourself looking at the female as well?


Please don't misunderstand me. I said earlier that:


The sight of a beautiful woman is almost equally and mutually appreciated by both sexes. The nature of that appreciation is somewhat different for either sex, but the intensity is almost the same.

In other words, when women check out women, there's (usually) nothing sexual about it. They check each other out because of the single most natural reason above all:


Women are God's single most wonderful piece of creation. Period.

Therefore a beautiful woman will be noticed by not only men, but her fellow sexual equivalents. Still don't believe me? I will state practical examples.

The idea I'm trying to illuminate here is the hidden psychology of humanity. When humans notice another which possesses unnaturally endowed physical beauty, it is always the case that staring pursues initial awareness. Whether you choose to accept it or not is irrelevant, as I did ask earlier:


How many of you realise that females can be just as homophobic as males?

I have caught males JCB, who were staring at me from across the room or across a table. There's nothing sexual about it and it has nothing to do with my physical appearance. In fact, it's because they're busy thinking "it's hard to imagine that this guy is the brainiac - he doesn't seem like I would have thought him to" or "so this is the dude that I've been hearing about all along" or something similar. Guys do it. They will deny it to the grave, but there's no denying the obvious. In fact:

Denial is the most predictable of all human emotions.

[Xenocrates]

Girls on the other hand always notice another female who is very physically endowed or articulate at least. Again, there's nothing sexual about it. Although, the very nature of this "noticing of the same sex" for women has a higher propensity to develop into something sexual. I will explain.

I had a very interesting experience some time ago:

I introduced two females to each other.

Female #1: is pseudo-caucasian (aka mulatto or half-white). She's got the best of both worlds in terms of genes. She has all the looks of a white woman, but the body of a black woman (guys, you can't even begin to imagine). If that weren't bad enough, she has an extremely vivacious personality, and a wicked smile. She's a little thicker than your average female, especially in certain areas, hence inciting the attention of men with certain overdeveloped tastes in women - the same kinda men who think Lara Croft has a normal chest. 'nuff sed.

Female #2: is more vigorously mixed (aka browning). She has the type of body that would turn men to boys, and boys to babies. She's the kind of female that advertising agents, companies looking for PR people and modelling companies look for. She's caused quite her share of automobile accidents by just attempting to cross the road, or in most cases merely standing at a bus stop in a skirt that was just...too short.

Good, so we have established the fact that these two females are well-endowed. After introducing the two of them, and they've exchanged their respective hi's, a rather weird and ackward thing happened:


The stare-down.

This lasted for the better part of 15 minutes. I kid you not. :icon_eek:

After the meeting, speaking with female #1 put me in an uncomfortable position. She asked me the following questions:

- Do you think I'm fat?
- Do you think my [insert body part here] is/are too big?
- Do you think I'm sexy?

Similarly, Female #2 asked the following questions:

- Do you think I'm pretty?
- Do you think [female #1] has prettier hair/lips/eyes/hands?
- Do you like my hips? I think [female #1] has nicer hips

...and so on.

Now, again, I say to you, there's nothing sexual about it, with respect to each other. If anything, the females are more concerned about self-perception. But because this obvious attention is directed towards their bodily features (namely the ones that more distinctively incite the sexual arousal of men), there is a higher propensity for this attention or rather, mutual recognition to become sexual in women. But regardless of how fat or slim or mixed or thoroughbred a woman is, her perception of herself is always relative to observation of other females. They may not be conscious of it, but it's there. In fact, if this perception is skewed badly enough, it can lead to psychologically affiliated disorders such as bolemia, anorexia nervosa, depression, among others.

If you are fair and honest with yourself, you will know that I speak the truth. ;)

[BlackCryptoKnight]

So what you're saying X, is that people observe/analyse/assess/appreciate other people (for different reasons), and it doesn't necessarily have any sexual connotation.

Fair enough.

I have heard some guys say they don't mind lesbians since its women, and to them, looking at women, regardless of what they're doing, is great. I don't agree with that sentiment. No matter how sugar-coated a bad thing is, it's still bad.

[Cocoa]

Women are God's single most wonderful piece of creation. Period.THANK YOU X :)


Now, again, I say to you, there's nothing sexual about it, with respect to each other. If anything, the females are more concerned about self-perception. But because this obvious attention is directed towards their bodily features (namely the ones that more distinctively incite the sexual arousal of men), there is a higher propensity for this attention or rather, mutual recognition to become sexual in women. But regardless of how fat or slim or mixed or thoroughbred a woman is, her perception of herself is always relative to observation of other females. They may not be conscious of it, but it's there. In fact, if this perception is skewed badly enough, it can lead to psychologically affiliated disorders such as bolemia, anorexia nervosa, depression, among others.Thanks for clarifying, I like the way you think and reason. Very nice.

[deakie]

hahahahahahahaha......woooiiiiii....me belly a bun me something wicked.....hehehehee....i luv it....

its true xeno, women stare each other down for that very same reason and it is the same reason they will fall into each others arms if the circumstances are right....believe....

however, this gay bashing does highlight a few things....

how willing are we to be tolerant of other ppl life styles
how comfortable are we to participate in a society that has very mixed values where some of those values threaten or go against our own values.
how comfortable are we in a crowd.....

you know, everyone looks at other ppl....its called ppl watching and in most places its an acceptable sport. we observe other members of society to be clued up as to how we ourselves will participate with the group. otherwise, you would have fads and fashions.

gillion hits the corner nails on the head.....fine line between hating and willing to destroy a group of ppl simpl cause they are different....terrible innit....

here is an unsual thing......considering that god allows kingoms to rule, eg nebuchadnezzar's predicament, and he allows them to completely dominaate for a while......isnt it strange that he picks the ones which are most tolerant?
i mean, show me a ruling kingdom of the past where it wasnt multicultured and had all manner of behaviour in it.
if it didnt, then it didnt last long.....you may say the muslim kingdoms are the only ones but believe, if you look at them, you will see how rapidly they changed hands.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

how willing are we to be tolerant of other ppl life styles
how comfortable are we to participate in a society that has very mixed values where some of those values threaten or go against our own values.
how comfortable are we in a crowd.....

Should we be tolerant of that which is wrong?

What are the risks of accepting behaviour which is wrong and that conflicts with your values?

How comfortable would we be to stand alone for what is right, while others move with crowd because it's the "tolerant" and politically correct thing to do according to popular opinion?



gillion hits the corner nails on the head.....fine line between hating and willing to destroy a group of ppl simpl cause they are different....terrible innit....

Because one hates certain actions or behaviour doesn't mean the one hates the persons who do them. If this were not the case then parents would hate children because they misbehave. God hates sin, but loves sinners. He hates the evil things humans do, but He doesn't hate humans. We should the hate evil actions and bad behaviour which many of us are guilty of, but we should not hate each other. Our goal should be to turn away from all that is wrong, and to detest all that is wrong, so we can embrace all that is right.


here is an unsual thing......considering that god allows kingoms to rule, eg nebuchadnezzar's predicament, and he allows them to completely dominaate for a while......isnt it strange that he picks the ones which are most tolerant?
i mean, show me a ruling kingdom of the past where it wasnt multicultured and had all manner of behaviour in it.
if it didnt, then it didnt last long.....you may say the muslim kingdoms are the only ones but believe, if you look at them, you will see how rapidly they changed hands.

Babylon, Medo-Persia,Greece, Pagan Rome - all these great empires were multicultured and had all manner of "behaviour" in it. They all fell...hard.

Sodom and Gommora - they had all manner of behaviour going on (big time tolerance and promotion of homosexuality), and God did reign fire on them big time. (Read Genesis 19)

The earth, in Noah's time, had all manner of behaviour going on in it, and God sent the flood to cleanse the earth of all it's wickedness. (Genesis 6:11-13)

All the kingdoms and empires perished because they were not focused on God nor did they heed the word of God. When God establishes His new kingdom it will not fall. (Read Daniel 2:31-45)

If you're looking for a blueprint for a sucessful empire, forming your strategy around accepting all kinds of behaviour and lifestyles isn't gonna make it a winner. Best strategy is to do what God says.

[Arch_Angel]

If you're looking for a blueprint for a sucessful empire, forming your strategy around accepting all kinds of behaviour and lifestyles isn't gonna make it a winner. Best strategy is to do what God says.Ain't that the truth!

[Greatis]

hmmm people don't you think this discussion has gone too far already? :icon_neut

[Arch_Angel]

hmmm people don't you think this discussion has gone too far already? :icon_neut
How far is too far? hmmm :eusa_thin

[Greatis]

How far is too far? hmmm :eusa_thin
Just think well the discussion has lost it's flavour and has gone a bit off track... just my thoughts anywayz... very informative info still...

[deakie]

a so it go y'kno greatis...it goes and comes like waves.... :icon_mrgr

still bck...just a note....all the kingdoms formed in gods name have all fallen too.
i guess thats why it will take him to rule eventually right?
seems that no matter which way you turn, the thoughts of one man's rulership is either too laxed or severe for another.
this is my point.
why do you think christ said that it would have been easier for the guys of sodom and gomorroh to accept his preaching than the so called righteous men of his day eh?
could it be that they were a tad self righteous....all wrap up in the though shalt do or not do without being a bit more.....how can i say......human.
for the top most pinnacle of a humans expression will always be incorrect. he is afterall, an imperfect being. this makes it so that his judgment is suspect.
best i dont go judging too harsh then as i certainly dont wanna be judged that way.

i do have my lines, but they are my lines. my values. the ones that tries not to deny another human being of his own rights, life and liberty etc etc.....for i dont have the right to go putting up hedges against another mans right. unless of course he interferes with my rights in an unreasonable manner.

we just gotta be more careful how we go about our own beliefs.......the world has had its fair share of crusades and about now should be tired of it all. nothng has been solved by any of them and we are right back at the begining again.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

a so it go y'kno greatis...it goes and comes like waves.... :icon_mrgr

still bck...just a note....all the kingdoms formed in gods name have all fallen too.
i guess thats why it will take him to rule eventually right?
seems that no matter which way you turn, the thoughts of one man's rulership is either too laxed or severe for another.
this is my point.
why do you think christ said that it would have been easier for the guys of sodom and gomorroh to accept his preaching than the so called righteous men of his day eh?
could it be that they were a tad self righteous....all wrap up in the though shalt do or not do without being a bit more.....how can i say......human.
for the top most pinnacle of a humans expression will always be incorrect. he is afterall, an imperfect being. this makes it so that his judgment is suspect.
best i dont go judging too harsh then as i certainly dont wanna be judged that way.

i do have my lines, but they are my lines. my values. the ones that tries not to deny another human being of his own rights, life and liberty etc etc.....for i dont have the right to go putting up hedges against another mans right. unless of course he interferes with my rights in an unreasonable manner.

we just gotta be more careful how we go about our own beliefs.......the world has had its fair share of crusades and about now should be tired of it all. nothng has been solved by any of them and we are right back at the begining again.

Well deakie, we can agree that people must be fair and just to all regardless of their beliefs. We can also agree that all have the right to stand up for their beliefs.

[deakie]

most def brother.....

on a note then, how would you feel having me as your neighbour..... :D

[BlackCryptoKnight]

most def brother.....

on a note then, how would you feel having me as your neighbour..... :D

That depends on how much your lifestyle would affect mine and my family's :eusa_thin ;)

[deakie]

hahahahahaha..........in fact, we mostly never have a choice in that one..... :icon_mrgr

[Cocoa]

I hope you gents live in Jamaica...cause surely here in the US, the gay community is FREE and OPEN. So come live besid emi yah deakie and bck. lol

[deakie]

i live in london jcb....second most expesive city on the planet behind tokyo.....the only thing right now that strikes a cord....

[Cocoa]

i live in london jcb....second most expesive city on the planet behind tokyo.....the only thing right now that strikes a cord....Mi lost sometimes when yu speak. Was that Keorean or english? :eusa_doh:

[deakie]

its true...i try to say a lot in a very short space and my keyboard often dont click properly.....my fault...hands up!!

[InkyP1]

Of course they are human. The question is how do you personally treat them. If your son or daughter was gay what would you do?

[Babyjay]

What about those that claim to have grown up with the desires for the same sex since before puberty or those that claim they're born wit it? I kno a few ppl whose parent(s) were gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender and supposedly :eusa_eh: the gene was passed down to them.

TRANSGENDER:Believe it or not, there are males and females (lil boys, lil girls, men & women) who while developin within the womb, are born in the "wrong" body, for eg., The brain develops as a girl but for some reason the body develops as a boy (or vice-versa). So then u have the guy that walks, talks and acts like a girl and will most likely, grow up to b gay (or vice-versa)

[Pondadat]

I think If my child was gay, I would have to except him or her. I may not like the choice they have made but that would be my child and I would not disown them. I know some people who say they new when their child was younger that they had a tendency to act more like a girl if they were a boy and vice versa. So I think like some people have more hormones that are female or male than they need. Its just going to be how you are as a human being in accepting gay people. I have also heard from some people that if they new their child would be gay they would prefer they die or leave them in the hospital when they were born. Its a harsh reality. But people think all sorts of things that dont make since.

[Pondadat]

What about those that claim to have grown up with the desires for the same sex since before puberty or those that claim they're born wit it? I kno a few ppl whose parent(s) were gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender and supposedly :eusa_eh: the gene was passed down to them.

TRANSGENDER:Believe it or not, there are males and females (lil boys, lil girls, men & women) who while developin within the womb, are born in the "wrong" body, for eg., The brain develops as a girl but for some reason the body develops as a boy (or vice-versa). So then u have the guy that walks, talks and acts like a girl and will most likely, grow up to b gay (or vice-versa)


Yes, I know for a fact that this can happen. I knew a guy who was born like this. He had a part similar to a girl and he had a ***** also.

[AngelsKiss]

Individuals who are born with both male and female sex organs are called Hermaphrodites.

[ActorRod]

Thats a strange question. The nazis asked that question too.... are JEWS human.... before that it was the Spaniards... are the Blacks in Africa Human, are the Indians in the "New World" Human. Whenever we ask that question it tends to point at very fundamental ignorance and fears....

So my question is.... why that question ? planining genocide are we ?


Yeah, and the Nazis had gays wear the pink triangle just as the Jews wore the star of David as they marched them off to the incinerators.

I am seriously offended by this question and the responses it has generated.

Judge not least ye be judged.

Just becuase you disagree with a persons lifestyle doesn't make it wrong. It may be wrong for you personally, but for them... it's their choice. And for some, they feel it wasn't a choice.

There is a good book out titled What the Bible Really Says About Homosexulaity by Daniel A. Helminiak. This slim book is an intellectually honest study of every Bible verse which may say something about homosexuality. You may be surprized to learn that gay-friendly wins the debate on its merits every time. The author, a Reverend who holds a PhD, assures that his book is Bible-friendly as well. It is plainly written and easy to understand. Begging your patience, I'd like to recite one shortened answer (for the sake of brevity) to one minor (inane) argument used to attack gays which some persons would like us to read into the Bible: the argument of Adam-and-Eve versus Adam-and-Steve. Toward that end, let me share the lyrics of a popular song I've been lately humming: 'It doesn't matter what you wear, just as long as you are there. Every guy grab a girl, everywhere around the world we'll be Dancing In The Streets.' (Sounds like a party!) Now, there is no reason to believe homosexuality was on this songwriter's mind, anymore than transvestism ('it doesn't matter what you wear...'). The theme of his song was everybody dance. The songwriter simply used the most common example ('every guy grab a girl'). So it is with the Bible's creation story of Adam and Eve. To read this text as a condemnation of homosexuality is simply to miss the point. To use this Bible text to condemn gays is to misuse the Bible.

I realize that Jamaican's tend toward serious homophobia, but this is the 21st century. Bob Marley's idea of "One Love, one heart. Let's get together and everything will be alright" has to include EVERYBODY or just like the USA's "all men are created equal" should... or those words become meaningless.

[W.I.L.L.Y]

well the way society ago 10 more years from now and we wont be asking that question we might be asking is it right to wed a animal?

[Zoley!]

I guess thats a matter of a opinion isnt it. :confused:

[Greatis]

well the way society ago 10 more years from now and we wont be asking that question we might be asking is it right to wed a animal?

hehe true true Willy we will be justifying beastiality. It's funny how the bible is used nowadays to justify even killing someone.

Fact of the matter is Gays are humans. We all know that. Everyone has posted to that effect. That was the question and it has been ans. So why are we straying off the path as to why it's wrong or right. That was not the question.

:eusa_thin

[AngelsKiss]

I find it very strange that such a question would even arise. I can't fathom what their lifestlye has to do with whether or not it makes them human. :icon_ques

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I am seriously offended by this question and the responses it has generated.

Judge not least ye be judged.

Just becuase you disagree with a persons lifestyle doesn't make it wrong. It may be wrong for you personally, but for them... it's their choice. And for some, they feel it wasn't a choice.


We can agree that:

1. Nobody is perfect.
2. No human has the right to judge another since non of us are perfect.
3. People should not be violent towards each other.

As for a particular lifestyle being wrong because someone disagrees with it, you are right. The fact that people disagree with something, does not make it wrong. Also, the fact that people support a particular lifestyle and advocate the right to chose it, doesn't make it right either.

If you are a Christian, then you believe that right and wrong are not subjective opinions, but that they are objective descriptions of choices based on God's law. God's law defines what is right and what is wrong. God defines it. So if God says that it is wrong, then it's wrong.

Leviticus 18 vs. 22


Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Yes gays are human.
Should we punish them for being gay? - No. Leave that to God.

[ActorRod]

Since we can agree to disagree, I have to point out a post that I made on another thread discussing homosexulity. However, I will point it out here as well.

I suggest you read What the Bible REALLY Says About Homosexuality by David A. Helminiak. Helminiak, a Roman Catholic priest, has done careful reading in current biblical scholarship about homosexuality. While cautioning against viewing biblical teaching as "the last word on sexual ethics," he stresses the need for accurate understanding of what the biblical "facts" are and concludes that "the Bible supplies no real basis for the condemnation of homosexuality." Using the studies of Yale historian John Boswell (Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe, LJ 7/94), New Testament seminary professor L. William Countryman, and others, Helminiak examines the story of Sodom (where the sin was inhospitality), Jude's decrying sex with angels, and five texts-Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, Romans 1:27, I Corinthians 6:9, and I Timothy 1:10-all of which, he concludes, "are concerned with something other than homogenital activity itself."

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

[ActorRod]

But one would ask the question, who says thier lifestyle is wrong? Who decides that?
If you say the Bible says its wrong, then who says they should follow the Bible? They aren't christians or religious. So why should they follow what the Bible says?

Missed this comment earlier... there are Gay Christians in the world, you know.

[Arch_Angel]

Missed this comment earlier... there are Gay Christians in the world, you know.
Yup, as much as I am a lying, murdering, adulterous, fornicating, thieving christian. Next week I am going to try out a new christian walk, called Idol Worshiping christian. Hopefully then I will be able to figure out which one I want to be. :rolleyes:

If their christian walk hasn't changed their lifestyle, then they haven't really experienced who God is. To me, that sounds like the work of the enemy to discredit Christians, the Bible and God.
Anyone can claim that they are a christian. But it's not their title that makes them one. It's their lifestyle. It has to be a reflection of what Jesus expects of us.

A Christian is someone who has Christ living inside of them. And if Christ is inside of them, they are called to live a life that is pleasing and acceptable in His sight. And God has set out in His Word, the kind of lifestyle a Christian should live.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

The Church is made up of regular people. People sin. Everybody sins. So it shouldn't be surprising that in the Church, there are homosexuals, just as there are liars, thieves, adulterers, fornicators, and even murderers.

To God, sin is just sin. We all need salvation and if we seek His forgiveness and truly repent, there is hope for us all.

[ActorRod]

Yup, as much as I am a lying, murdering, adulterous, fornicating, thieving christian. Next week I am going to try out a new christian walk, called Idol Worshiping christian. Hopefully then I will be able to figure out which one I want to be. :rolleyes:

If their christian walk hasn't changed their lifestyle, then they haven't really experienced who God is. To me, that sounds like the work of the enemy to discredit Christians, the Bible and God.
Anyone can claim that they are a christian. But it's not their title that makes them one. It's their lifestyle. It has to be a reflection of what Jesus expects of us.

A Christian is someone who has Christ living inside of them. And if Christ is inside of them, they are called to live a life that is pleasing and acceptable in His sight. And God has set out in His Word, the kind of lifestyle a Christian should live.

Yeah, and pedophile CATHOLIC PRIESTS... what happened to their vow of celibacy??

[Gillion]

dis thread still have life ?