Is blocking roads a justifiable means of protest?

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Is the common practice of blocking roads a justifiable means of protest? Is it effective? Is it fair?

[Gillion]

... ..... NO .......

[bernie]

no way......but the $M question is......do they know any better???

[BlackCryptoKnight]

no way......but the $M question is......do they know any better???
Ignorance is no justification. Besides, those who block the roads know full well what they are doing. Even if they didn't, it would still be wrong.

[Manu]

Not a justifiable means....but it somewhat effective. Fairness? Depends on which side of the fence you're on.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Not a justifiable means....but it somewhat effective.
How is that so?

...

[Manu]

How is that so?

...

Well.....issues are brought to light....at the very least. The gas riots caused the price to go down....yes we lost alot of monet due to property damage and whatnot...but the purpose for it was achieved. I'm not condoning don't get me wrong. I know they're other measures but my knowledge is far above that of the average Ghetto Youth....

[bernie]

Ignorance is no justification. Besides, those who block the roads know full well what they are doing. Even if they didn't, it would still be wrong.
you are a christian right? who would you be uspset with the more? your church bro who..say..fornicated or and unbeliever that did the same thing?
more than likely would be your brethrine...and why? wouldn't that be because he was already taught the way of right?
i bet you wouldn't be so hard on the unbeliever
we therefore cant expect better if better is not being taught....thats all am saying...not justifying anything.

[Xenocrates]

I would have agreed with you bernie, but when those educated kids @ UWI went on in exactly the same way as those uneducated ones, it kinda makes your point a little moot.

I don't think education has anything to do with it.

It's a cultural stigma. Smarts or no, some people have a natural tenacity to behave ignorantly. Hence, I back BCK: Ignorance (or lack of education) is no excuse.

Wheel and come again.

[bernie]

I would have agreed with you bernie, but when those educated kids @ UWI went on in exactly the same way as those uneducated ones, it kinda makes your point a little moot.

I don't think education has anything to do with it.

It's a cultural stigma. Smarts or no, some people have a natural tenacity to behave ignorantly. Hence, I back BCK: Ignorance (or lack of education) is no excuse.

Wheel and come again.
i do get your point xeno....but i still believe if the peeps were educated, there would at least be fewer of these incidents
you are educated....like those kids@UWI but you(unlike them) would rather approach the situation differently
if all the ghetto youths were educated in like manner....who to tell how many would rationalize like you do.....

[Gillion]

Misery loves company ... it is a basic human flaw ... if I am miserable about something then I will try to make you miserable about something too ... at least until I feel beter about it.

Ergo ... I am miserable about UWI school fees ... I am gonna block MonaRoad... SPREAD THE MISERY !

This is what road blocking means ... misery spreading is the surest way to get an IMMEDIATE response from those in power by causing them some form of dicomfort.

It is a shame but honestly ... it seems to be the only way that the higherups listne to anyone "smaller" than them in Ja.

[Xenocrates]

It takes more than education to change the nature of a man.

If the society in which he lives glamourizes ignorant behaviour, then no matter how much education he receives, his environment will continually reinforce a SPECIFIC type of behaviour.

You ever heard the expression, "you can take the lion out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the lion" ?

It's gonna take a helluva lot more than behavioural conditioning to tame that lion. Even when tamed, he still possesses the propensity to bite your hand off. I'm reminded of the Bengal Tiger incident in Las Vegas.

When our society CULTIVATES behavioural patterns in our culture, our lifestyle, our music, our drama - everything we do, then my friend, no amount of PH.D. studies will make the average joe any less of a hooligan - unless he was BROUGHT UP in an environment that doesn't condone the behaviour.

When black folk idolize the NEGATIVE things in life like thugs, gangs, violence, etc, and glamourize them, it has an effect on our people. We MAKE ourselves think a certain way.

I have been to university with MANY other men and women like myself. We all received the same degree. Yet, our behaviour is radically different!

Why?

IT's how we were brought up my friend. I grew up without those stigmas because I didn't have it in my environment. My parents saw to that. These other guys have the stigmas, because it was wantonly and indiscriminately flaunted around them. It has an effect on our thinking my friend. It DOES.

Until we as a nation identify and eliminate those elements in our culture that perpetuate those propensities, we will ALWAYS be a nation that is gripped in fear when they feel they need to protest against the Gov't.

But who is going to be so bold as to change our cultural stigmas? We've become so attached to them, that removing them would make us "less black" or "unjamaican" as some would say. In fact, on this very forum, saying that I didn't like Dancehall music drew a response from one person that I was "not a Jamaican". Another girl went as far as to say that I'm an "Oreo". You see what I mean? Do you understand how we think and why it is so dangerous?

I guess biblical prophecy has to be fulfilled. In the last days, people will shun wisdom and have itching ears for ignorant things. Good will become bad and vice versa. So I guess we are mortally doomed to be ignorant till the end come.

...there is no reason however why we can't change the way we think. It's a tough thing to do, but it CAN be done. Not every black man needs to have a black mind. The colour of our skin and our nationality doesn't have to coincide with specific behaviour patterns. I don't accept that kind of thinking for once. That is train of thought of a narrow mind. We should loose ourselves of this crippling method of thinking and emancipate our minds from the slavery of ignorance.

If Bob Marley could see that in one moment of divine revelation, I have a hard time understanding why the rest of us can't.

[bernie]

:icon_arro XENO
again good point.....but there are people that grew up with thugs and managed to escaped the lifestyle. as i see it....narrow minded peeps cant think.....free their minds and chances are we have a better society....everyone may not make good of their "free mind" but i believe we would have the majority. when people know they have options to choose from.....different ways of doing things....they will act accordingly.


"you can take the lion out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the lion" ?
i have personally disproven this. a cousine of mine came to live with us years ago (she was rotten worthless). taken from the bad ways she was used to...not saying it was easy for her but she turned out well....very well educated and an active member in her church for several years now.
suppose we had written her off as being a goner?
ok....we have a situation and please stop sayin black....its jamaican.
now xeno....what are some ways you think we can deal with such issues?

[Xenocrates]

BTW, the analogy about the lion and the jungle exemplifies everything that you've mentioned. That's what I was trying to say all along. ;) The evironmental conditioning can change an individual. This is why you have people who grew up in the ghetto, but go away to study and return with a completely different set of behavioural characteristics. If that lion was raised in captivity, it is highly unlikely that he'd exhibit the behaviour patterns of a wild lion. But you already agree with me on that point so... ;)


I've already outlined the ways in which the issues can be dealt with. The million dollar question is, are we willing to get them done? We've become so attached to that cultural stigma, that here we're asking for something that most people simply will not give up. It's too deeply entrenched in our culture.

[Blindz]

good points across the board guys, personally I don't think that it is neccessary to block roads just to get across a point, but however there is a strange mentality that I have realised in JA(not too certain about ne where else) but to get your point noticed you have to raise your voice or go to some extreme measures. Examples can be found in everyday little situations, you go to a restaraunt or some place of business request something (that they offer/should offer) and you have to get loud before you get that desired service. Its strange but true, nobody(except me) loves noise and would do anything to shut up people, so once you start to make up a rucus look how fast you get through

[BlackCryptoKnight]

you are a christian right? who would you be uspset with the more? your church bro who..say..fornicated or and unbeliever that did the same thing?
more than likely would be your brethrine...and why? wouldn't that be because he was already taught the way of right?
i bet you wouldn't be so hard on the unbeliever
we therefore cant expect better if better is not being taught....thats all am saying...not justifying anything.

That doesn't cut it. The point I am making is that these people do know better. They are not the naive, uneducated persons you make them out to be. When you listen to them, they clearly state that they know, and have in some case tried alternative means of expressing their feelings, but they feel that they need to inconvenience people in order for people to actually listen. They take a strategic and tactial decision to block the roads and impede other citizens. They are not innocent, nor are they ignorant of what is right. Road blocking has gone on for so long now, there's no way they don't know what it's all about.

Let's not forget that education comes not only from formal schooling and training. People learn from what happens around them. So yes, people may live and see negative things around them, but that doesn't mean they have to follow suit and perpetuate the negativity. If a young girl grows up in a poor community and sees the women around her struggling to make ends meet with 6 and 7 kids whose fathers neglect them, shouldn't she see that hardship and figure that following that trend would lead to nothing but suffering for her? Shouldn't she be able to figure that out without going to University and getting a degree? She should. Every person has the capacity to learn and to think. Some just choose not to excercise it in a positive way.

[Blindz]

That doesn't cut it. The point I am making is that these people do know better. They are not the naive, uneducated persons you make them out to be. When you listen to them, they clearly state that they know, and have in some case tried alternative means of expressing their feelings, but they feel that they need to inconvenience people in order for people to actually listen. They take a strategic and tactial decision to block the roads and impede other citizens. They are not innocent, nor are they ignorant of what is right. Road blocking has gone on for so long now, there's no way they don't know what it's all about.
Quite true BCK, they all know that blocking the road is wrong, but as you said, they tried other measures and nothing happened, to them its like being laughed in the face. Hence I redirect you to what I said previously, in this country there is a mentality that to get what you want you have to raise up hell. Its a shame but the truth.

[pogi_2nr]

hmm.. blocking the road is a good way to protest the free flow of traffic. ;)
http://www.wheelsjamaica.com/wheels_forum/Smileys/default/thumbup.gif JLP, good job!

[ramesh]

they tried other measures and nothing happened, to them its like being laughed in the face. What were these other measures? Who were the people laughing? I must have missed that.

[bernie]

ok blocking roads are wrong BCK, now tell us of the effective means you know the people will reach to the government.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

ok blocking roads are wrong BCK, now tell us of the effective means you know the people will reach to the government.

Firstly, understand that there is no guarantee that protest action will lead to government altering their policies.

Now what is it you want to achieve? If the aim is to express sentiments about issues, then there are forums available where that can be done:
- Talk shows on radio and TV.
- Letters to the editor in newspapers.
- "Face to face" meetings with government officials (town hall style or one -to-one).
- Social commentary music.
- Using facillities such as the one Xeno mentioned in a thread elsewhere on the site, where the govt. is soliciting feedback on it's customer service.
etc.

If your aim is to force the govt. into particular action, then I can't help you.
Just be careful, and know that terrorists justify their attrocities by saying that it is effective.

[Gillion]

Firstly, understand that there is no guarantee that protest action will lead to government altering their policies.

Now what is it you want to achieve? If the aim is to express sentiments about issues, then there are forums available where that can be done:
- Talk shows on radio and TV.
- Letters to the editor in newspapers.
- "Face to face" meetings with government officials (town hall style or one -to-one).
- Social commentary music.
- Using facillities such as the one Xeno mentioned in a thread elsewhere on the site, where the govt. is soliciting feedback on it's customer service.
etc.

If your aim is to force the govt. into particular action, then I can't help you.
Just be careful, and know that terrorists justify their attrocities by saying that it is effective.

Good lord ...
Are you sure you are jamaican ?

[bernie]

Good lord ...
Are you sure you are jamaican ?
i was afraid if i responded then we would be going in circles....
umm....many have tried these measures but to no avail
now....whats the next best thing?

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Good lord ...
Are you sure you are jamaican ?

I'm as Jamaican as you are.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

i was afraid if i responded then we would be going in circles....
umm....many have tried these measures but to no avail
now....whats the next best thing?

There may be other ways to get your point across. I may not be able to provide a prescriptive guide on all the plethora of ways to go about it, but whatever people do, they should keep to the principle of not causing harm to others, and not infringing upon the rights of others.

If you are having a demonstration, take that to the persons with whom you have an issue. Go picket Gordon house, or the Ministries. Don't go blocking the roads where ordinary people just like you have to travel.