Excorcism; Fact or Myth? (AUDIO!)

[Xenocrates]

Do you believe in the paranormal, that demons exist? Do you believe that all people who exhibit psychoses (abnormal psychotic behaviour) are possessed by demons, or are they just suffering from a medical condition?

If you don't in a spirit realm, then these multimedia clips might change your mind.

WARNING: The audio recorded here is HIGHLY disturbing and depicts the demonic deformation of a girl's voice as an exorcism rite is being performed. This is not for the feint of heart. This is not a Hollywood production. This is the real deal.

Consider yourself warned!

Audio: Click here (http://paranormal.about.com/library/media/audio/russian_exorcism.wma). (Turn your speakers down for this one. It's a real hair raiser!)
Video: Click here (http://paranormal.about.com/library/media/Russian_Exorcism_0001.wmv). The video depicts a Russian news report of similar exorcisms taking place with visual evidence.
Article: Click here (http://paranormal.about.com/od/demonsandexorcism/a/aa031405.htm).

Note: People who suffer from psychotic disorders have no period of reprieve from those disorders (In other words, crazy people don't know they're crazy). On the other hand, people who are demonically possessed can consciously exhibit a state of mind that describes their own psychotic disorder.

If you watch the video and witness the testimony of some of the parishoners who were demonically possessed, you can clearly see that the individuals are exhibiting normal, conscious behaviour when being interviewed, as opposed to their psychotic state during the exorcism.

View the multimedia clips (if you can) and tell us what you think.

[nester-san]

I believe in tons of stuff, not sure about demons as in christian demons (opponents of God), but I believe in Entities who do not have humanities or any other biological entities best interests at heart.

I do believe that a LARGE number of these cases are simply creations of the minds of the people involved. The human mind will make itself believe almost anything, and can cure itself and destroy itself accordingly.

What I would love to find out, is how many NON-Christians like myself have ever believed that they were possesed. Evil is evil and even if you do not subcribe to God/Devil fighting for your soul, they may believe it to be an animal spirit (Japanese folklore is filled with stories of possesions by fox spirits), or some other force.

[Xenocrates]

I do believe that a LARGE number of these cases are simply creations of the minds of the people involved. The human mind will make itself believe almost anything, and can cure itself and destroy itself accordingly.

- Well, y'see, that's where the trouble comes in. A normal human mind doesn't go into these mass psychoses all by itself. There has to be some kind of external influence of some sort. Furthermore, some of this behaviour is clearly inhuman. To me, what is more frightening is that people are more willing to dismiss these things as psychological phenomena when there are more terrifying forces at work. That field of psychology (i.e. psychiatry of psychoses) assumes that there is no disembodied entity with such capability.

That's the messed up part about it.

[tiffany]

I believe in excorcisms, and i do believe that demons possos the soul, and not only demons with horns and tails from hell, but also, any problem that may be plaguing an individual. Now, as a matter of fact i was watching the history channel last night and there was something about excorcims, now the lookf 4 four signs when looking for possession: 1. Super human strength, 2.knowledge of a language, that the individual would have no way of knowing, 3. fear of anything holy ie,crucifix, holy water etc. 4 Knowing information he/she would not normally know.

[tiffany]

Also, that thing where you see the evangelists, laying thier hands on people and then they fall back and stuff, that is another form of exorcism.

[Xenocrates]

Also, that thing where you see the evangelists, laying thier hands on people and then they fall back and stuff, that is another form of exorcism.

- Why do you say that? :eusa_thin

[Manu]

Also, that thing where you see the evangelists, laying thier hands on people and then they fall back and stuff, that is another form of exorcism.

Actually he either has something to shock them in his hand or there is something underneath them where he places them to stand....

[nester-san]

Fair enough, but remember when you grow up every day with Priest, Elderly people,friends etc, telling you that EVERYTHING that is bad is the work of the devil, and not just the fact that some people have less compassion and are more selfish than others, it leads a lot of people to assume, and their minds to create these "demons" to lay the blame of bad behaviour and guilty conscience on.

I was in a bus coming home when I was about 16, (this was back when I was not a hedonist,(More nerd than anyhing else). This women looks me dead in the eye and says "You are demon possesed!" and starts chanting. Most christian believers would have been traumatised, but I found it interesting.

Since I seemed to be sharing bodies with an entity who showed no outwardly signs of manefestation, but seemed content to have me be broke and womenless.

If I am gonna be a host, at least I would like a symbiotic parasite!

Seriously though, I do believe in Evil entities, but one would think that they would have learned over the centuries to manifest in morons like Bush, not in a poor christian woman in Russia!

How do you know for an absolute fact that the mind cannot create these things?


Furthermore, some of this behaviour is clearly inhuman
What defines inhumanity ?
Hitler's regime, who have been poster children for inhumanity were responsible for genocide on a scale that hopefully will never be replicated, were they cruel, unthinking, un-empathetic people, or demon possesed or BOTH ?

How do you explain stigmata's, and those dudes who poke themselves in face with spears and swords and do not bleed, or the middle aged bon-bon eating women who turn over SUV's to free their trapped kids?

[tiffany]

Actually he either has something to shock them in his hand or there is something underneath them where he places them to stand....
Really, i did not know this..interesting..thanx

[nuhsenutten]

I found it interesting.

Since I seemed to be sharing bodies with an entity who showed no outwardly signs of manefestation, but seemed content to have me be broke and womenless.




my yute .....u serious.........lol.......:D..
how u make it sound so .........


but this hedonist thing how far u take it SAN?

[nester-san]

but this hedonist thing how far u take it SAN?

As far as my conscience will allow me, my mantra is treat others better than you would yourself, so I am down for whatever that will allow..

BTW: Xeno, I am about 90/10 is the possesion belive thing, how your poll so cut and dried?
My view is statistically insignificant ?

[Manu]

Really, i did not know this..interesting..thanx


Yup..saw an expose' on it on one of those cable channels. I think it was TLC. And the information they know about you is because they have an earpiece and someone telling them the information from a piece of paper that they send around the congregation to for p[rayer requests.

[Xenocrates]

How do you know for an absolute fact that the mind cannot create these things?

- Evil was not manifest until an evil being influenced its occurrence. By default, men were not evil beings. It was an evil entity that introduced evil to mankind. Technically speaking, sin itself was not one of the god given natures of mankind. Rather, it's a characteristic that was introduced to man by the Devil (See Genesis 3). All men born afterward inherited the trait.

Therefore, all evil of this nature are born of something external to the human mind. If you saw the video, you'll see where a medical practitioner testified that a Schizophrenic was cured by exorcism. The practitioner was stunned - having never heard of a schizophrenic being "cured" per se. If the schizophrenic disorder was indeed a product of the afflicted's mind, how could a "demon" have been exorcised, and the person return to normality?

Indeed, the mind is a powerful thing. It will make something that is unreal, real and so on. But that kind of triggered response doesn't manifest itself unless directly stimulated by some outside force. You can broadcast an image into my mind and my mind will make it real, but by itself, it won't become real.


What defines inhumanity ?

- Humans are social creatures by default, and thus, naturally exhibit behaviour that is conducive to social integration. Grotesquely evil thoughts and the deeds that follow are not a characteristic of the default human condition - especially if they disrupt social uniformity. Any such behaviour is not a natural manifestation of the need for social integration, and is therefore inhuman. It's a little more complicated than this, but you get the idea.


How do you explain stigmata's

- Personally, I'm not totally convinced about stigmatas. But if they're real, I seriously doubt they're manifestations of God's spirit. I believe that demons are so clever, that there's nothing holy they can't emulate. It's one thing demons like to do is to draw attention to themselves - hence why they often manifest as visible apparitions, poltergeists, and any other loud conspicuou


...and those dudes who poke themselves in face with spears and swords and do not bleed...

- Special mind and body training. Shaolin monks suspend themselves from their testicles using the same kind of extreme body conditioning.


...or the middle aged bon-bon eating women who turn over SUV's to free their trapped kids?

- This is a fight or flight response powered by a sudden surge of adrenaline into the blood stream. It's a programmed response that lies in the ID of every living creature when facing imminent danger. Haven't you heard of the 300 lb woman who scaled a 8 ft wall when being chased by machete wielding men in Africa? Same thing.

[nester-san]

My point exactly my man!

The mind is powerfull, and can create the most bizarre abilities,visions etc.

Remember, I am not denying the existence of entities and possesions, I am just saying I believe they are in the VAST minority.

If a demon posseses someone, what is the purpose of possesing the old russian basically good grandma, rather than blood thirsty,amoral,cokehead,alchoholic, BIBLE THUMPING George Bush Junior?

Subtly controlling that twit and the other idiots in seats of power would be more to any evil creatures benefit.

Case in point, I have been reading a lot of samurai stuff recently, and comparing the "Way of the Warrior" to other "Ways" in modern life.

There is something they define as "war spirit", which basically is a mindset focused entirely on the destruction of your enemy/nothingness.
Most paths in life that require high levels of emotional commitment (priests,killers, etc) require that spirit.

Pastors who have been held up by killers and bun bible verse on them and killers drop guns and repent or flee I do not attribute to the power of the Lord. Simply the "War Spirit" of the Pastor completely overwhelms the mind of the killer.

Musashi who took on 100+ samurai and lived as an adult fully immersed in his "war spirit", was disarmed and taken captive as a youth by a zen buddist monk, and meekly followed him to prison, after living wild and killing countless soldiers. He literally was unable to raise his sword to the monk.

The point I am trying to make is, yes possesion is real, but the MIND, is responsible for a lot of stuff.

I am stumped on the speaking of different languages, but!!, I would need to see a complete history of the possesed, ie. did they hear snippets of lanaguage elsewhere, and the subconscious mind is regurgitating them.

I have heard that you never actually forget anything you experience, so technically, if I could access a certain part of my brain, I could repeat word for word the entire Japanese dialogue for the dozens of movies I have seen.

[root_gal]

This freaked the $h!+ out of me. I listened to like one second of it. I think I might have to sleep with the lights on :(

[silentburn]

I better not listen to it. Demons are real. :eusa_shif

I doubt ''exorcism'' that the catholics practice is the proper way to get rid of them. The demon would probably be rolling on the ground laughing his guts out if u held up a crucifix to the victim or tried to douse the victim with ''holy'' water. :icon_lol:

Another thing also, being possessed by demons doesn't necessarily mean you have to be convulsing on the ground or talking in multiple voices.

[ramesh]

Read The Exorcist by William Peter Blatty. Even though the book is about demon(s) controlling a young girl, Damian (the priest) has had much teaching about the psychological aspects of persons seeming to exhibit demonic possession tendencies, but which can be explained by known medical phenomena.