Secrect Societies

[rodalembs]

Been doing some research on the Illuminati, Skull and Bones and Free Masons for a bible study. From my research the history of these societies are shrouded with a perversion with satanic rituals and there desire for a new world order. some of the things that i have found that are really surprising.

1) That Bush's grandfather funded Hilter
2) That the British Royal Family has linage going back to Nazi roots
3) America bank rolled both sides of World War II
4) Both Bush and Blair are members at the rank of Knights in the there secrect societs ( S&K and Masons Respectively)
5) Many of American High Society participate in an annual satanic ritual at a place called the Bohemain Cove.

and much more.

Do any of you beleive these things / done any research here? What do you all think?

[easyskanka]

I don't think it achieves anything constructive to delve into conspiracy theories. The earth officially belongs to the true God who created it.

However satan showed all the kingdoms of the world to the Christ and boasted of how it had been given over to his charge for a short while, just the same as how God gave him charge over Job, with certain stipulations attached. God later relieved satan's hold that he had over Job, and in like manner he will relieve satan of his charge over the earth.

Because of these facts we have to allow the leaders of the earth to fulfil their individual roles as luitenants, generals and other commanders in the world of the father of this system. Don't concern yourself too much with the vagaries of the world. Keep your sights set on the prize of everlasting life, which is the real reason for our existence. :)

[Trickster]

I was reading a book about the mark of beast etc.
N they were saying that Washinton DC has been designed like something thats related to the free masons with the heaquaters for the free masons being at the top of the design signifying they have a control over the United States. N in order for the US to become free they have to destroy Washington.
They also stated that of all the US presidents only 1 or 2 (dont remember which one) have not been apart of the free mason.
They also said Clinton was invited to one of the meetings they host and soon after he won the election
Oh I remember the name of that book now. Its called: Say No To That Mark

[nester-san]

Been doing some research on the Illuminati, Skull and Bones and Free Masons for a bible study. From my research the history of these societies are shrouded with a perversion with satanic rituals and there desire for a new world order. some of the things that i have found that are really surprising.

1) That Bush's grandfather funded Hilter
2) That the British Royal Family has linage going back to Nazi roots
3) America bank rolled both sides of World War II
4) Both Bush and Blair are members at the rank of Knights in the there secrect societs ( S&K and Masons Respectively)
5) Many of American High Society participate in an annual satanic ritual at a place called the Bohemain Cove.

and much more.

Do any of you beleive these things / done any research here? What do you all think?

Don't know bout 5, 1-4 are old azz news..
Amerikkka has one of the most screwed up govts evar.

[rodalembs]

I don't think it achieves anything constructive to delve into conspiracy theories. The earth officially belongs to the true God who created it.

However satan showed all the kingdoms of the world to the Christ and boasted of how it had been given over to his charge for a short while, just the same as how God gave him charge over Job, with certain stipulations attached. God later relieved satan's hold that he had over Job, and in like manner he will relieve satan of his charge over the earth.

Because of these facts we have to allow the leaders of the earth to fulfil their individual roles as luitenants, generals and other commanders in the world of the father of this system. Don't concern yourself too much with the vagaries of the world. Keep your sights set on the prize of everlasting life, which is the real reason for our existence. :)


Easy, Indeed we need to focus on the prize, but we also net to understand the systems that drive the world less we be caugth up in them unknowingly.

[Izemi-Clem]

Hail

:icon_arro Rodalembs

I'm not sure I overstand your second statement, the nazi socialist party started in the 20th century, the Tudor family's royal lineage began way before Henry VIII. How can their lineage go back to the nazi party?

I've done my own research on the free masons, mostly on those with the Scottish constitution and a little on the Irish constitution, some very dear and close friends of mine are free masons.
I've even attended the induction ceremony of one them as Grand Master, I was only there to help out and was not allowed to view the induction ceremony. In fact only free mason who have completed a required amount of degrees were allowed to view the ceremony.
What impresses me is that their efforts are built around service to the community without seeking any publicity for anything that they are doing.

I've asked them about their public image and the rumors they assure me that it's all not true and they mostly don't mind the image they have because people tend not to mess with them when they hear the are free masons.
They tell me that the secrecy is really about maintaining some sort of discipline and giving their members ideals to live by.

As with any society and organization which offers the public limited access inside their organization, a lot of things will be said about what goes on and what they are really about.

Unless we are on the inside we have no real idea about what is really happening, we have no idea which side has the real agenda; the societies or the nay sayers.

As ES said conspiracy theories abound aplenty, and if you follow most of them you might even hear one about Izemi-Clem sponsoring a plot to get God shot, or something like that.

Izemi-Clem

[Manu]

I know of one 1, 3 and 4. Not sure bout the rest. America is very corrupted but the end is not near yet. When the pope start medling in America's government and telling them what to do and what not to do...then be afraid....be afraid...especially if your soul is not accounted for :eusa_pray

[Twinkie]

Hail
...some very dear and close friends of mine are free masons.

I've even attended the induction ceremony of one them as Grand Master, I was only there to help out and was not allowed to view the induction ceremony.

Izemi-Clem
Ummm you amaze me more and more. Yet and still, I could be a pedophile, listed on a sex offender site, but tell you it just people's perception and it doesn't bother me cause they leave me alone.

Does it make me less of a pedophile. When a society allows for transparency, it leaves little to the imagination. Secrecy, lends to a whole other story.

[Izemi-Clem]

Hail

:icon_arro Twinkie

I'm not exactly certain I'm following you Twinkie, but you're right about the secrecy thing.

Regarding the Free Masons, I believe it is the same secrecy which they hold on to, which they believe holds them together in brotherhood and separates them from any other service organization is the main things which contributes to the negative perception about them.

One would figure that conditions which existed in their history (which goes as far as the Guilds in Europe during the middle Ages) which have lended themselves to the secrecy certainly do not exist now and that they would have evolved to fit in with today society.

Most of the Free Masons I know belong to a Lodge Hall in Mandeville and they are always being involved with community projects in and around that area, most are traditional Free Masons, they seem very involved in the service and contribution aspect of it.

Izemi-Clem

[Bahama Mama]

Been doing some research on the Illuminati, Skull and Bones and Free Masons for a bible study. From my research the history of these societies are shrouded with a perversion with satanic rituals and there desire for a new world order. some of the things that i have found that are really surprising.

1) That Bush's grandfather funded Hilter
2) That the British Royal Family has linage going back to Nazi roots
3) America bank rolled both sides of World War II
4) Both Bush and Blair are members at the rank of Knights in the there secrect societs ( S&K and Masons Respectively)
5) Many of American High Society participate in an annual satanic ritual at a place called the Bohemain Cove.

and much more.

Do any of you beleive these things / done any research here? What do you all think?



There may be some plausibility in #2. The British Royal Family is originally of German lineage. Queen Victoria's mother was German. In fact in the early 20th century, an official name change of the Royal Family was decreed. The now present 'Windsor' title was chosen because it sounded less German and more British than the previous family title. Obviously a move to shake off their German roots.

[Babyjay]

I've read all about those things and more in the book "The Secret Terrorists" by Bill Hughes.
Click on the link and please read, if u have time. This will really shock u.

:icon_arro http://www.pacinst.com/terrorists/preamble.html

[Izemi-Clem]

Hail


There may be some plausibility in #2. The British Royal Family is originally of German lineage. Queen Victoria's mother was German. In fact in the early 20th century, an official name change of the Royal Family was decreed. The now present 'Windsor' title was chosen because it sounded less German and more British than the previous family title. Obviously a move to shake off their German roots.

Fair enough, but explain how their lineage goes back to Nazi roots, if it is established their lineage began before the nazi party was established.

Izemi-Clem

[Bahama Mama]

Hail



Fair enough, but explain how their lineage goes back to Nazi roots, if it is established their lineage began before the nazi party was established.

Izemi-Clem


I am not saying that that is absolutely true, in fact it may not be. I am just going by the fact that they do have German roots going back only 4 to 5 generations. There are many distant relatives that can lay claim to the same lineage as the Windsors through the German link. The fact that they changed their official family name from a less German sounding one to a more English one, is enough to raise speculation at least. I think the probability that the Brtitish Royals lineage passed through Nazi roots is slim, but not nil.

[rodalembs]

Hail



Fair enough, but explain how their lineage goes back to Nazi roots, if it is established their lineage began before the nazi party was established.

Izemi-Clem

Iz proabably roots was the wrong word...What i was trying to say that their linage has german branches to it. Also they had changed their name from Windsor to cover up the german heritage.

[Manu]

Hail



Fair enough, but explain how their lineage goes back to Nazi roots, if it is established their lineage began before the nazi party was established.

Izemi-Clem


I think it was worded incorrectly. What he probably meant is that both the royal family and the nazi's come from the same ancestoral lineage.

[Izemi-Clem]

Hail

Ok fine, give thanks for the clear up, Rodalembs and Manu..
But please explain further.

Was it that relatives of the British Royal family played significant roles in the Nazi Party and its plan for world domination and extermination of Jews and peoples considered less than the super race to be placed in servitude ?

Or was it that there was indeed an established conspiracy by the British monarch themselves to establish an alliance with Nazis once they came to power and eventually they themselves would benifit from their dominace?

Izemi-Clem

[Xenocrates]

:icon_arro Roda

This is a good thread. It's nice to know what is actually out there. It's good for Christians (and others) to know exactly what they're dealing with. Unfortunately, most of what we think we know is inaccurate. I'll elaborate later.

By the way, you started this thread in the wrong sub-section. This thread actually belongs to the General Discussion sub-section. Never-the-less, on to the clarifications:


1) That Bush's grandfather funded Hilter

- False. This allegation is part of a smear campaign against the current President Bush. His actions remind a lot of historians of how Hitler ran his government, and later swept across Europe like a war monger (among other things). The propaganda was started by a league of Americans against Bush. They are currently going across America seeding these lies. They are not true. Bush is an idiot, not a dictator.


2) That the British Royal Family has linage going back to Nazi roots

- False. The British Royal Family is descended from the Saxxons which descended from the Allemanians of the ancient Roman Empire. After the fall of the Roman Empire, The Allemanians were released into their gothic homeland, which is what we now know today as Germany. The Allemanians were also descended from the same set of people who seeded the northern European countries of Switzerland, Russia, Finland, Norway, Denmark and even Iceland. Some of these people were Vikings at some point in time. This misdirection was deliberately intended to lend sensationalism to the conspiracy theory that Diana's death was planned. It also serves to make innuendo about Bush and Blair joining forces for the same fraudulent war.


3) America bank rolled both sides of World War II

- False. This allegation is also borne of the same smear campaign to describe the United States as the new Nazi Germany. Do a Google for Bush Hitler and you will see more details of this smear campaign in action. Or better yet, click here (http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html) to read them all in one convenient web page.


4) Both Bush and Blair are members at the rank of Knights in the there secrect societs ( S&K and Masons Respectively)

- True. Many US presidents (in fact, most world leaders) are or were members of the Free Mason Society. Bush is a member of Both Skull & Bones and The Free Masons. Skull & Bones is nothing more than a club of elite scholars who have graduated from the University of Yale. The organisation has extended to include great achievers in modern American society. It is not a religious sect, nor does it have any religious leanings. Any and all ceremonies conducted by Skull & Bones is strictly for membership and other mundane rites. This is a common practice in Fraternity (for men) or Sorority (for women) clubs on Ivy League college campuses in the US. It has no religious significance whatsoever.


5) Many of American High Society participate in an annual satanic ritual at a place called the Bohemain Cove.

- True. The ceremony is called Black Sabbath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_%28witchcraft%29), and it takes place the night before Good Friday. You have to be a member of the Satanic Cult known as the Brotherhood to partake in this ceremony. You cannot be a Free Mason if you intend to join this cult. The Free Mason teachings are against it.

[Xenocrates]

While we're at it...

:icon_arro About The Free Masons (Brief)

They are not a religious cult (as most people believe). They have no significant religious leanings. The Free Masons are a society of philosophers who hold the secrets to some things that common men marvel at - or would otherwise reject (for lack of understanding). These things range everywhere from science to politics. These truths can only be digested by people who have naturally deep understanding of certain philosophical subjects - which is why only the best and the brightest tend get into the Free Masons. Although, I'm not sure how Bush made it in, but nevermind... :rolleyes:

The Free Mason's teachings transcend all religions, all sciences and philosophies. But actively, these teachings help their members (who are often world leaders or people in high positions) deal with the difficulties that may arise in their respective jobs - irrespective of the culture or religion of which they are a part. The Free Masons don't decry any particular religion (another reason why Christians don't like them) but instead channel their energies towards the development of modern societies. They're really Utilitarian Humanists by philosophical categorization, which automatically runs afoul of any particularly right-wing religious dogma out there - especially the fanatics touting them. The Muslim Extremists of Persia Major are far more dangerous than the Free Masons could ever hope to be.

As such...


...they were saying that Washinton DC has been designed like something thats related to the free masons with the heaquaters for the free masons being at the top of the design signifying they have a control over the United States.

- What you refer to is an incomplete pentagram on Pensylvania Avenue. The pentagram is a 5-pointed star that is commonly used in devil worship. However, if you look closely at the map of Washington DC, the "pentagram" barely exists. 2 of the 6 roads which "form" the pentagram do not meet. Therefore the image is incomplete. This is nothing more than the product of the over active imagination of conspiracy theorists. Conspiracy Theorists are people who see what they want to see - even when it's not really there.. Pay no attention to this nonsense. It is categorically FALSE.

[Xenocrates]

...in order for the US to become free they have to destroy Washington.

- The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance. If the entire US government were to be wiped out, the entire country would implode from the resulting anarchy which would overcome the country in days. So they would be free of course, but at what price? :rotflm: This is why the US Army has the legal right to institute Martial Law on the country, should for any reason, the Government cease to exist.

Furthermore, even if they were to destroy the Capitol building, there are several dozen fallout sites underground all over the United States which would automatically engage as the new Government Headquarters. Therefore this rumor is categorically FALSE.


They also stated that of all the US presidents only 1 or 2 (dont remember which one) have not been apart of the free mason.


- FALSE. Two thirds of all US presidents were NOT Free Masons. ;)


They also said Clinton was invited to one of the meetings they host and soon after he won the election.

- FALSE. Clinton was a member of the Free Masons LONG before he ever even entered Government. :rotflm:


Oh I remember the name of that book now. Its called: Say No To That Mark

- Advice: Say no to that Book. It is full of conspiracy theories based on baseless and absolute nonsense. ;)

Let us not be gullible. Don't draw all of our information from one source. Cross reference our sources. This is how you expose what is true and what is false. More falsehood exists than truth. Thus, if we really want the truth, you're going to have to work harder than reading one book, or one internet site, or one TV program, or one magazine, or one person, or one [insert your favourite source of information here].

In fact, don't take my word for it. Go out and do your own research. ;)

[rodalembs]

While we're at it...

:icon_arro About The Free Masons (Brief)

They are not a religious cult (as most people believe). They have no significant religious leanings.

Xeno..why then do the say that persons at a higher degree does not reveal the secrets of that degree and that only persons at the 33rd, 32nd and 31st degree have the "details" of Freemasonary?

Alot of the information that i read and cross-refrence on them talk about the quest for being one with satan especially at the top and the involvement with black magic and blood rituals?

I hope you can share some more insight.

[nester-san]

The US. Govt. did import/smuggle in tons of Nazi Scientists to further research into Rockets/Bio-warfare/Genetics etc.

[nester-san]

- False. This allegation is also borne of the same smear campaign to describe the United States as the new Nazi Germany. Do a Google for Bush Hitler and you will see more details of this smear campaign in action. Or better yet, click here (http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html) to read them all in one convenient web page.
.

BUSH-NAZI LINK CONFIRMED SORTA!


Documents in National Archives Prove George W. Bush's
Grandfather Traded with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor

by John Buchanan (Exclusive to the New Hampshire Gazette)


WASHINGTON - After 60 years of inattention and even denial
by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in
The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that
Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush,
served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative
for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926
until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush
and his "enemy national" partners.

The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according
to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, tried to
conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz
Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s,
personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion
of democratic principle and German law.

Furthermore, the declassified records demonstrate that Bush
and his associates, who included E. Roland Harriman, younger
brother of American icon W. Averell Harriman, and George
Herbert Walker, President Bush's maternal great-grandfather,
continued their dealings with the German industrial tycoon for
nearly a year after the U.S. entered the war.
http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/

Both Harrimans and Bush were partners in the New York investment firm of Brown Brothers, Harriman and Co., which handled the financial transactions of the bank as well as other financial dealings with several other companies linked to Bank voor Handel that were confiscated by the U.S. government during World War II.

Union Banking was seized by the government in October 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act (search).

No charges were brought against Union Banking's American directors. The federal government was too busy trying to fight the war, said Donald Goldstein, a professor of public and international affairs at the University of Pittsburgh.

"We did not have the resources to do these things," Goldstein said.

----- http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

Later, the U.S. government also ordered the seizure of the assets of a further two leading financial agencies directed by Prescott through the accounts of the Harriman banking institution: the Holland-America Trading Corporation (a U.S.-Dutch commercial firm) and the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation.

Then on November 11, 1942, an embargo was imposed on the Silesian-American Corporation - another firm headed by Bush and Walker - under the same Trading with the Enemy Act.


Summation:

Was not really a Nazi collaborator ie. Hitler supporter/death camp director, basically just like Iraq, they went where the money was. Irrespective of any nationalistic or moral views. That is they were perfectly aware of who the monies they managed/invested were benefiting, but so long as commision was running, they couldn't have cared less.:eusa_naug :eusa_snoo
Just F'in greedy, and shameles' basik'ly :icon_redf

[Xenocrates]

Xeno..why then do the say that persons at a higher degree does not reveal the secrets of that degree and that only persons at the 33rd, 32nd and 31st degree have the "details" of Freemasonary?

- You gain degrees by discovering certain types of knowledge on your own. If that knowledge was freely passed down to you, you would not have worked to get it, and thus would not be worthy of attaining higher levels of degrees.

Freemasons use the Socratic method to elucidate ideas in lower degree members. You don't go to a class and take notes per se. You are just asked questions, asked to think about it, and if you can come up with the right answer, you gain a degree. Do you think that B.Sc. degree you hold from a local university wasn't awarded on the same basis? This very concept was invented by the Free Masons! Plato started the Academy in ancient Greece to serve as a forum for higher education. It was the Free Masons who thought of awarding successful graduates "Degrees" of success. This is how today, we have:

- 1st Degree (Bachelor)
- 2nd Degree (Master)
- 3rd Degree (Doctor)

The Free Masons have just added 30 additional levels of degrees of mastery to what conventional universities award. This is why you READ for your degree. You have to prove yourself worthy of acquiring that degree. All that University lecturers do is stimulate your mind to be creative. That's why on the completion of most degrees, you have to write some final paper, thesis or project of some sort, to prove yourself worthy of attaining that degree of mastery.

This concept was invented by the Free Masons - and that's how FreeMasons achieve higher and higher levels of degrees. A Grand Master at the 33rd Degree is a Master of Metaphysical Philosophy. Usually, he is a person who has mastered several languages, is a citizen of several first world countries, and is usually recognized by the United Nations as a candidate for Ambassadorship. The Free Masons are little more than a private elite club for the most elite of the world's men. Women can't become Free Masons because of some fundamental teachings in the Bible.

[Xenocrates]

Alot of the information that i read and cross-refrence on them talk about the quest for being one with satan especially at the top and the involvement with black magic and blood rituals?

- In around the 18th Century (or there about), the Free Masons were infiltrated by the Illuminati. They are a powerful sun-god worshipping organisation that stems out of ancient Rome. This is why so many have confusing information about where the Free Masons started. Today, the Illuminati has established a large number of lodges worldwide, masquerading as Free Masons. The Illuminati have perverted many people's perceptions of the Free Masons, including the highly popular devil worshipping myth. Trust me... nutt'n nuh guh so. :eusa_naug

It is the Illuminati who are devil worshippers (or more specifically, demon worshippers). Free Masons don't have any kind of religious or worship ritual in their ranks of any kind. The reason why so many people have become fearful of Free Masons, is that:

The Illuminati have irreperably damaged their reputation and given them a bad name as a pseudo-christian cult.


The Free Masons believe, that if they are not guilty of a crime, they have no need to clear their name.


The Free Masons believe that keeping their secrets of science, technology and philosophy are more important than clearing their names. If they tried to clear their names, those secrets would have to be revelaed.


Thus, those who believe the lies are less likely to intervene in their work - the mere fact that they believe the lies makes them unworthy of membership. So they prefer to allow people to believe whatever they want to believe about them. Their secrets are so important to them, that they prefer to damned by others for who they really are.

[Xenocrates]

The Illuminati has also infiltrated numerous church organisations and spawned dozens of Christian cults from them (eg. The Church of Christ and some derivatives of the Pentecostal movement). The Illuminati have also been mistaken as Rosecutionists (a pseudo-Christian sect who worship the Virgin Mary). The Illuminati have also infiltrated ranks of the US Government. You can see their sign (the All-Seeing Eye) on their 1 dollar bill above an incomplete pyramid.

This is another misconception many people have:


The All Seeing Eye is a symbol of the Illuminati, NOT the Free Masons.

This is the symbol of the Illuminati:


http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/users/boogles/illuminati.gif

The symbol of the free masons is the Divider over Square:
http://www.geocities.com/freemasonry_masons/images/square_and_compasses.gif

See the difference? So let's do a preliminary re-cap:

Free Masons are not Evil
Illuminati are Evil
Illuminati makes Free Masons seem Evil


This doesn't mean that I would recommend any "Bright" person on here to go out and try to join a lodge. No-no-no... Don't do that. :eusa_naug If you don't fully understand the difference between the REAL Free Masons and the Illuminati impersonators, you could get yourself into some serious trouble.

Free Masons were once just artisans and architects - Brilliant men who kept certain secrets of architecture among themselves, so that they and only they would have the power to erect those magnificent structures you see in England, Spain, France, and all over the old world. Over the centuries, they became a most wealthy elite organisation. This is one of the reasons why they were infiltrated by the Illuminati. Some examples of structures erected by free masons include:


L'Arc Du Triomphe - France
The Parliament Building including the clock known as Big Ben - England
The Washington Monument - Washington DC, USA
The White House - Capitol Hill, USA
The Pentagon - USA
The Eiffel Tower - France
The Chapel of the Holy Rose - England
The Rosslyn Chapel - Scotland
The Temple Church
Westminister Abbey
...I could go on forever...


...but I'm sure you get my point. In fact, most of those gothic structures were built by free masons. Even to this day, modern engineers don't understand how some of those structures were built without using a computer. All of these magnificent structures were built by architects who were Free Masons. There're lots of other amazing achievements in science, technology and social development that were also developed by Free Masons. But getting into that here, would overdrive this overkill.

[Manu]

Isn't that symbol on US money....don't remember which note...either washington or benjamin!

[Izemi-Clem]

Hail

:icon_arro Jian Xeno

Regarding Free Masons let me add further, you cannot simply join a Lodge you have to be deemed worthy and possessing the characteristics that make a good Free Mason, which are being honorable, trust worthy and a man of his word, then you would be sponsored by someone and then elected to join.
The person who sponsors you carries the biggest burden, as it is his reputation which is a stake.

In Jamaica there have been several Grand Masters who have come from the lay classes, they have done so because of their ability as masons.
Free Masonry seems elitist but it is not, all are equal in the brotherhood, you will find labourers, doctors, technicians, pastors, accountants, teachers and even Governor Generals among the brotherhood.

The first established Free Masons began in Scotland and it started with the common working man, their roots began with the Master guilds in Europe which built the great cathedrals all over Europe which today still have engineers baffled at how they were able to achieve such feats.

While women aren't allowed to become Free Masons, usually you will find that their wives often band together and do their own charity work.
It is often said that a man cannot become a true Mason without the support of his wife and family.

:icon_arro Nester-San

It is a known fact that Hitler's rise to power in Germany would not have possible without the support of the industrialist class, who saw him socialist model as the best way to take advantage of the chaos after the war, removing the Kaiser and establishing a working order which of course would benefit themselves.
Socialism even works for capitalist (learn dat Gillion).
After World War I, Germany was ripe for capitalist investment and capitalist from all over the world took advantage of this, as you know even JFK's father got involved in act, as did many other capitalist in America as well as Europe.

You cannot but marvel at the achievement that the socialist model had achieved in Germany after the war, as they froze wages gave everyone jobs, reduced hyper inflation of up to six digits and built their country from the ashes.
If they wanted to achieve world domination they certainly could have done so without seeking to conquer the world by force and having a corrupt ideology and a madman at the helm to boot certainly did not help.

[easyskanka]

FACT: Britain does have a female version of Free Masons as intimated by Izemi- Clem. I once heard them on a feature that was broadcast on bbc radio 4.

[Gillion]

The US. Govt. did import/smuggle in tons of Nazi Scientists to further research into Rockets/Bio-warfare/Genetics etc.
If the US didn't do it, the Russians would have. The level of science that nazi scientists had at the end of WWII was far beyond anything that the WHOLE world has ever known. German science was and probably still is far ahead of the rest of the world. Albert Einstein is German but a Jew.

Anyway, Stalin would have done much more and much worse with the NAZI scientists had he gotten hold of them as the American's did.

[Gillion]

- You gain degrees by discovering certain types of knowledge on your own. If that knowledge was freely passed down to you, you would not have worked to get it, and thus would not be worthy of attaining higher levels of degrees.

Freemasons use the Socratic method to elucidate ideas in lower degree members. You don't go to a class and take notes per se. You are just asked questions, asked to think about it, and if you can come up with the right answer, you gain a degree. Do you think that B.Sc. degree you hold from a local university wasn't awarded on the same basis? This very concept was invented by the Free Masons! Plato started the Academy in ancient Greece to serve as a forum for higher education. It was the Free Masons who thought of awarding successful graduates "Degrees" of success. This is how today, we have:

- 1st Degree (Bachelor)
- 2nd Degree (Master)
- 3rd Degree (Doctor)

The Free Masons have just added 30 additional levels of degrees of mastery to what conventional universities award. This is why you READ for your degree. You have to prove yourself worthy of acquiring that degree. All that University lecturers do is stimulate your mind to be creative. That's why on the completion of most degrees, you have to write some final paper, thesis or project of some sort, to prove yourself worthy of attaining that degree of mastery.

This concept was invented by the Free Masons - and that's how FreeMasons achieve higher and higher levels of degrees. A Grand Master at the 33rd Degree is a Master of Metaphysical Philosophy. Usually, he is a person who has mastered several languages, is a citizen of several first world countries, and is usually recognized by the United Nations as a candidate for Ambassadorship. The Free Masons are little more than a private elite club for the most elite of the world's men. Women can't become Free Masons because of some fundamental teachings in the Bible.

Do not suffer a woman to have authority over men ?

[Gillion]

I remeber in my school days I was bit of a loner and i liked to study alone. I learnt a whole lot quicker than some people and many subtle things in the courses I did (physcial sciences) were "revealed" to me.

I did not however socialise alot, I spent most of my time with nose in book and what I saw happening was that I was being accused of "hoarding knowledge"

Some people started reacting badly to me all because I kept to myself and figured out how to keep my grades up.

I saw the same effect within my "linux groups"

Because I espoused the value in self study and that each potential Linux hacker wade his way through the water, I was often accused of being eitist and I don't share knowledge.

Instead pf spoon feeding, I would ask certain questions, or provide certain links to articles, books etc. This was not welcomed. Some said I was hoarding knowledge

I made the mistake once of spoon feeding a new linux user and he quickly turned to doing malicious thoughts and actions with the "know-ledge" he got.

when you struggle to earn you know-ledge it become precious and most often than not, you won't use it for evil.

If you get your know-ledge quickly, the temptation to use it for evil will be strong and you may just give in.

Thus the story of Adam and Eve.

If man had not eaten of that forbidden tree, would would not have gotten our know-ledge so fast an unbrideled to the point where it contorts to darkness and confusion. If we had obeyed, we would have learnt things at the right pace and we would be much further than we are now.

The problem is, we want to be like GOD.

[nester-san]

If the US didn't do it, the Russians would have. The level of science that nazi scientists had at the end of WWII was far beyond anything that the WHOLE world has ever known. German science was and probably still is far ahead of the rest of the world. Albert Einstein is German but a Jew.

Anyway, Stalin would have done much more and much worse with the NAZI scientists had he gotten hold of them as the American's did.

Ahh that is true, but at the same point, morality apparently has nuthin to do with anyting anymore eh?

Biological warfare = :eusa_naug
Genetic warfare = :eusa_naug
Chemical Warfare = :eusa_naug
Personality Altering/Brainwashing = :eusa_naug

[Gillion]

Ahh that is true, but at the same point, morality apparently has nuthin to do with anyting anymore eh?

Biological warfare = :eusa_naug
Genetic warfare = :eusa_naug
Chemical Warfare = :eusa_naug
Personality Altering/Brainwashing = :eusa_naug

Mankinds morality be damned.

There is good and evil.

Even more there are greater evils and lesser evils... and in a world that tries to function without GOD, men will choose the lesser evils.

Stalin was just as awful as Hitler. He just did not have the know-ledge that Hitler had in the form of scientists. If he did .... shudder the thought.

If you know that the man next door is brewing poisons for your cats, what are you going to do ?

[ramesh]

If you know that the man next door is brewing poisons for your cats, what are you going to do ?Allow him to do it because it must be part of God's ultimate plan?

[Xenocrates]

:icon_arro Master Clem

Excellent points. It's always good to be reminded about those. Thanks for the reminder. ;)

:icon_arro Master G

That is one of the primary scriptures. There are several of them. According to a brejin of mine, the following scriptures are also included for the basis on which they don't admit women:


But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. - 1 Corinthians 11:3


Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. - Colossians 3:18


But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - 1 Timothy 2:12


(All references taken from the King James Version)

Note that these are all New Testament scriptures. There's nothing redundant about them even today - irrespective of any cultural context.

:icon_arro My personal Opinion

I think it is sad that all of these lies are being circulated about them and they're doing nothing to clear their names - however honorable their stance on that issue is. But as my colleague says, Christ was ridiculed as a blasphemer and he died to defend his truth. The Free Masons take a similar stand.

The problem I have with that (as it is a major problem for the Free Masons as well) is that there are many copycat lodges being spawned under the Free Mason banner, which are deeply occultic, and run by the Illuminati. Unsuspecting inductees may join a lodge unknowingly becoming inducted into a religious cult that [I]imitates the Free Masons.

This is what fuels this grand speculation that the Free Masons are evil. But when I think about it, to this very day, the Orthodox Jews still don't believe that Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world. They still believe that he was an ordinary man, and a blasphemer. How cruel!

I guess there are some things worth dying for. :eusa_thin

[rodalembs]

Personaly i still have a lot of questions on these societies, just too secrect for me..!

[hotangel]

so what about lodge here in jamaica.

[AngelsKiss]

Documents in National Archives Prove George W. Bush's
Grandfather Traded with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor

by John Buchanan (Exclusive to the New Hampshire Gazette)



I read several articles on Prestons Bush's connection with the Nazis.


:icon_arro Roda

- False. This allegation is part of a smear campaign against the current President Bush. His actions remind a lot of historians of how Hitler ran his government, and later swept across Europe like a war monger (among other things). The propaganda was started by a league of Americans against Bush. They are currently going across America seeding these lies. They are not true. Bush is an idiot, not a dictator.



I don't know why people like to call Bush an idiot. The man is not an idiot and that's the mistake most people make. It's when we underestimate people is when they are at their most dangerous. We think they are stupid so we understimate them and therefore never see them coming.


If the US didn't do it, the Russians would have.

I truly don't know what anyone hopes to achive when they make statements like this. I always hear it in particular to Black slavery. In my mind it doesn't make a lot of sense. To me it comes across as "oh well don't complain because if one person doesn't do it another will". (BTW am not saying this is what you mean.)

Go commit a crime and tell the judge that if you didn't do it someone else would have and see what he does.

Better yet, if you claim to believe in God, keep sinning and tell him that if you didn't do it someone else would have.

Yes we all know that there is good and evil, but that's why we have laws, rules and guildlines to live by. They may not always work but they are there nontheless. If we are going to have this kind of attitude, why don't we just throw the rule book out the window?

[Manu]

You saying Bush pretending to be stupid?

[rodalembs]

What i want to know though really, even after all Xeno and Izzy. has said, can we really trust Free Masons .

1) Why is it that even when they are criminally worng Masons allow other masons to go free? Is this true?

2) Is have spoken to mason and he says that to progress on has to denouce all forms of religion or the existence of a diety? He said that any chrsitian in a Lodge is not a true christian :eusa_thin :eusa_thin

So, my thing is do we really understand what is happenig before our eyes? Are these secret societys really just a "fraternity" or is there more than meets the eye?:confused:

[Xenocrates]

I don't know why people like to call Bush an idiot.

- Because he is. It's not like we need to speculate about this. Just watch the news. It's a clear as day. The stuff George does... :rotflm:


It's when we underestimate people is when they are at their most dangerous. We think they are stupid so we understimate them and therefore never see them coming.

- You're giving him way too much credit. Bush is a posterboy for the Carlyle Group. A number of the Carlyle Group's companies in the heavy industries and defense portfolios, (such as United Defence and other oil trading firms), stand to make billions from this war in Iraq. That's why all the necessary strings were pulled to ensure that Bush won his presidency. The man is just an idiot puppet, being puppeteered by powerful businessmen on both sides of the war who stand to make billions of dollars from the conflict. Sure he knows what's going on, but he is by no means the engineer of all this madness. He's not that intelligent.

But differently still, don't you find it odd that so many of his administrative personnel are resigning? They're resigning my dear, because they realise what is going on. They realise that Bush's motives are being driven by something far more sinister. Since a tribunal is going to come out of this in the near future, as each member of his administration becomes aware of the truth, they step down. There's going to be hell to pay for this war, and they want nothing to do with it.

I always thought that it was rather fishy that Bush employed so many African Americans to those top positions in his administration. Hmmm.... maybe that was just wishful thinking on my part. :eusa_thin

[Xenocrates]

What i want to know though really, even after all Xeno and Izzy. has said, can we really trust Free Masons.

- Only those who have left the organisation. There're too many copycat lodges around to know who to trust. I only know what I know because of a 33rd degree lodgeman who has since left. He is a christian minister. I won't mention his name here, because he is very well known in Jamaica. You prolly hear him preaching on LOVE FM on a number of occasions. The truth is Roda, the FreeMasons were dedicated to uplifting a certain standard - backboned by christian teachings. But if it is difficult for even me, someone who knows how they operate, to differentiate the wheat from the tares, I wouldn't tell any christian brother of mine that yes they can be trusted. That would be highly irresponsible of me.

I have reason to believe that many Free Masons are not even aware of this corruption.

The Grand Lodge in the UK is fully aware of it however. It is probably still the only uncorrupted lodge on earth. Many of the larger lodges in the US are largely fully corrupt. I don't know what fraction though.

A Quick Way to differentiate them:

Any Free Mason who asserts that the All Seeing Eye is also a symbol of theirs, is quite probably secretly an Illuminati and is automatically from a corrupt lodge. The good thing with lodgesmen is that they are often very humble. So you might be able to convince that lodgeman to step down from his ranks and leave the lodge. You might want to educate yourself about the Illuminati before doing that though. Lodgemen are extremely well learned. They will want proof. :confused:


1) Why is it that even when they are criminally worng Masons allow other masons to go free? Is this true?

- Yes unfortunately. It usually happens when lodge members are in Government and have diplomatic status. Remember that one incident that was dismissed as "youthful exhuberance?" That's one such case of one lodgeman letting off another. I shall say no more on that issue. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you probably shouldn't know.

But let it be known, it is against lodge rules to permit this sort of behaviour. This is how I know the lodge in Jamaica is corrupt (at least, the one in New Kingston). In the UK, you would be immediately stripped of all your lodge privileges, honours, degrees, etc. and be excommunicated from the group - along with the person who invited you in. The genuine Free Mason code survives on a stringent honour system. You don't get a second chance to mess up.

[Xenocrates]

2) Is have spoken to mason and he says that to progress on has to denouce all forms of religion or the existence of a diety? He said that any chrsitian in a Lodge is not a true christian :eusa_thin :eusa_thin


- Tell him to communicate that to the Grand Master in the UK and see what comes of it. The Free Mason lodge operates on a code of honour derived from the Bible. So what this man is telling you is nonsense.

The Free Masons don't denounce religions. They believe that the existence of various religions are a function of the different cultures in which they were borne. They believe that the Universal Master (i.e. God to the layman) hardwired every man on earth with a desire to worship and to recognize that his natural existence was manifested by a supernatural source. That is what the Free Masons believe to be the origin of religion in it's various forms. They believe that these various religions are derived from the same fundamental beliefs, and thus no one particular religion necessarily has the whole picture.

This is why the Free Masons respect all religions, but subscribe in whole nor in part to none - with the exception of the basic priciples found in Judeo-Christianity. They believe that Judeo-Christianity is the primary faith and that all others are mere distortions of the fundamental truths held in christianity. This is the Coda of the UK Lodge. The Illuminati have merely corrupted this with their demonic teachings - which seek to twist that basic premise into something very similar - but very incorrect. The Lodgemen don't denounce other religions. They don't accept them either. This is why they also welcome subscribers of other faiths other than christianity, but only once they understand that there is a common thread that underscores all religion.

This is what fundamentally distinguishes a lodgeman as a philosopher, and not a religious zealot. Once you are a zealot (irrespective of your religious faith) you will not be invited into the lodge. You can bet on it. This is part of the reason why many Christians believe they are a cult. Many christians (like other religious people) tend to be over-zealous of their faith - to the point of emotional fanaticism, devoid of any logic, reason or scriptural justification. The same can be said of Muslim Extremists. Anyone belonging to either of these factions, would never be invited to be a Free Mason. A free mason is a free thinker, who is not easily indoctrinated by wild doctrines, but understands the fundamental necessity of something as ubiquitous as religion. That kind of distinction is not possible with common men. That's why in any lodge, you will not find common men. It takes a man who has mastered the art of formal thought to grasp something that deep, and that intense - without crying blasphemy, when he has yet to understand what was just said.

With that said, maybe you need to help that lodgeman understand that his lodge has been perverted by the Illuminati. I'm glad you mentioned this. That was quite a clever deception!

[Xenocrates]

So, my thing is do we really understand what is happenig before our eyes? Are these secret societys really just a "fraternity" or is there more than meets the eye?:confused:

- Both pre-suppositions are correct I'm afraid. I don't denounce the Free Masons categorically because I understand where they are coming from and I understand what they're trying to achieve. But the Free Masons are a fraternity, not more or less than that. Unfortunately, their names have been dragged in the mud for the better part of half a millenium. When a fraternity's honour has been truncated for that long, trusting or even joining it is just pointless.

Even though the lodges of the United States and The United Kingdom have come forward to expose their inner workings to clear their names as of April of this year, I fear it is too little too late. It's next to impossible to scrub the damage done by an infestation campaigne of such epic proportions.

While they had their good reasons for keeping their secrets, I'm afraid that people's imaginations tend to grow wild when they reach an information blockade - irrespective of how good that reason is. A classic example is how many people today still believe that the US Government is hiding aliens. The US Gov't has a very good reason to keep it's special warcraft secret. But the public will continue to have outlandish suspicions, so long as the US Gov't keeps a tight lid on things around Area 51. The real Free Masons are suffering from the same thing.

[AngelsKiss]

- Because he is. It's not like we need to speculate about this. Just watch the news. It's a clear as day. The stuff George does... :rotflm:

- You're giving him way too much credit.



No I am not giving him too much credit. However, not because he is incapable of speaking means he is an idiot. People keep underestimating Bush and that's stupid. Never underestimate anyone, no matter how stupid or simple they may appear to be. Looks are very deceiving.

[Babyjay]

Everything that has been said here and MORE is mentioned in the link I provided........ oh, but nobody checks on wat Jay has to say....... :eusa_snoo

[Xenocrates]

:icon_arro AK

You're right; The man does have some serious ulterior motives. But that's besides the point. For outside of the core issues with which he is immediately associated (namely the Iraqi war) his decisions in other sectors of Government have been incredibly poor to say the least. This goes far beyond his inability to articulate. The man is a poor leader - largely because he is incompetent as a leader. I'm sure you're aware of the number of companies that George W. has headed which either went bankrupt or had to be financially bailed out by other organisations - debt and all. He is a horrible leader because he is incompetent as such. The mere fact that people can see right through him is enough. :confused:

[Gillion]

Everything that has been said here and MORE is mentioned in the link I provided........ oh, but nobody checks on wat Jay has to say....... :eusa_snoo

It is a common thing at CY and it bugs the hell out of me as well.

[AngelsKiss]

:icon_arro AK

You're right; The man does have some serious ulterior motives. But that's besides the point. For outside of the core issues with which he is immediately associated (namely the Iraqi war) his decisions in other sectors of Government have been incredibly poor to say the least. This goes far beyond his inability to articulate. The man is a poor leader - largely because he is incompetent as a leader. I'm sure you're aware of the number of companies that George W. has headed which either went bankrupt or had to be financially bailed out by other organisations - debt and all. He is a horrible leader because he is incompetent as such. The mere fact that people can see right through him is enough. :confused:

A poor leader or what may seems like an incompetent leader doesn't mean he is stupid. Two different things. His leadership is dependent on his agenda which may be for the country or in his personal interest. I am fully aware of the companies he headed but again it doesn't mean he is incompetent or stupid, some of it could be dependent on market timing and again his agenda. If he got what he wanted out of the companies before they sunk, does that mean he is stupid or incompetent? No, I don't think so. The fact that these companies have gone under but have not affected his personal balance sheet says a lot about the man himself.

Look, am not trying to defend Dubya...all am saying is that too many ppl make the mistake of believing he is stupid and IMO that is a stupid on their part.

[ramesh]

Exactly! It's just like the people who say that Inpector Clouseau is an idiot..... and look at all the mysteries he's solved! ;)

[Xenocrates]

:rotflm: :dwl: Point taken! :icon_mrgr :eusa_clap

[silentburn]

Bwoy, you guys discuss everything already. lol

People, don't be so quick to think that the free masons are just a simple philosophical organization who seeks to contribute their knowledge to society. Most of the world leaders are involved in the organization, even the middle eastern ones yet we have so many wars. :eusa_whis

The leaders of many middle eastern countries have been seen greeting western leaders with masonic hand shakes. Yet, the leaders of both the west and east engage in costly wars. :eusa_whis

Do you all think its as simple as this and that its just the Illuminati who is causing all the problems for the mason's? :eusa_eh:

These are not the only secret organizations, I think there are 13 of them and they are all linked, even a certain church is involved; that church is actually the one who is in total control of everything.

We seem to forget that there are forces at work which we cannot see. Xeno all what you have said is what they tell everyone. We must also remember it is only those at the top who have the total knowledge of what it is all about. The rank file members usually know very little.

All this is leading up to something. According to biblical chronology the earth is roughly 6000 years old and mash. Let us take note of something. The time to the flood was 2000 years, the time to Christ first appearance was another 2000 years. 2000 + 2000 = 4000. We've gone another 2000 years in the AD era. Doesn't the pattern above indicate that something big should be happening now????

I need to refresh my knowledge on the free masons. :icon_redf

Just don't take everything as conspiracy theories, we all need to step back and look at the events happening around. Look at 9/11. Why did the CIA building crumble to the ground without even being hit? Why was the building evacuated a day before 9/11?

You know what I'm going to do some serious studying and come back and explain everything to all you guys.

Xeno remember that 99% truth mixed with one 1% error will eventually become 100% error because truth cannot be mixed.

Oh and Xeno the masonic emblem is not just a compass and a square, don't let them fool you. You will be surprised to know what symbols can mean.

Some people may find want I have said above incoherrent but everything is linked it just takes so damn long to explain. I will come back and explain in a few days.