Free Education is not the solution Bruce!

[gucci man]

Morning everyone.

as much as i want bruce to win i must write this article

It has come to my thoughts that a free primary and secondary education system will barely benefit Jamaicans.

Education in Jamaica right now is not 100% free but very affordable to the majority. Only a small minority will actually feel a great lift from the removal of fees.

Let me outline our present system.

1) avg primary school fee = free
2) avg secondary school fee = $5000*two terms = 10,000 for the year

with this system i find that many students, even after getting into high schools ARE NOT LEARNING anything. Research has shown a decline in performance of high school students at the cxc level.

Boys in particular are showing a declining interest in education.

Let me remind you that the govt is paying for 4 CXC subjects. Math, English, Information Technology and a science subject.

How more liberal can education get?

Lets take it to another level. Tertiary.

I am aware that Bruce was not going to cover tertiary level but i want to show you that getting an education in Jamaica is not constricted by funds as much as we think.

Majority of tertiary level students have accessed the Students' loan bureau to fund their way through college. Even myself have used this for my first year at college. I see people in college right now that cant even find lunch money or rent but are still in college and doing fairly well.

The conclusion is therefore that If students want to get educated, THEY WILL find ways and means to. In our high schools and primary schools, these kids are performing below par. This leads to a society of uneducated people who then turn to crime because they cant find a job that matches their educational background (none).

If free education is not the solution, then what is the solution?

Stay tuned

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Free education is one thing. Better education is another.

[Manu]

We have the facilities. Parents need to play a part and stop with this get-rich-quick mentality. Most of the rich people in Jamaica earn it the hard the way... and they stay rich because they knew how hard it came. I think we need more schools... so that the classes are 20 per teacher at maximum so each child can benefit from a closer relationship with their teacher...

[Justice]

Parents are playing a huge role; they have to fork out 11 billion per year for lunch money, transportation, books, swimming lessons and all sort of other thing being charged by the schools (information from the ministry of education). This tuition fee thing a non issue and I don’t even see why we debating it. By the way, don’t we pay education tax? I personally wouldn’t mind paying an additional 2% for education tax to improve the education system in Jamaica. Or maybe we can privatize NHT and use the contribution for education? NHT have a 54 billion dollar portfolio, how much more money they need?

People also need to stop politicizing the education issue; it is either we going to have free tuition fee or not. If the PNP not supporting free tuition fee then they should stop complaining that it is not feasible. On one hand we can spend 9 billion on cricket world cup, 3.4 billion on a transportation centre (in half way), 10 billion/year on air Jamaica, 1.2 billion/year on JUTC, yet still we complaining about investing 1 billion in educating the future of this country?

As little as 10 thousand dollars is a lot to many parents who find it hard to come by it. We can forever argue about them having unwanted children, but that doesn’t change the fact that the children exist and if not properly educated will be the downfall of this country when they start firing guns.

I also wouldn’t mind paying an additional 2% on the already 3% NIS contribution for improving the healthcare system.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

It seems that many people feel that Bruce and the JLP didn't think things through before they stated their position on education and cost-sharing. (http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070713/news/news2.html)

[Twinkie]

I disagree with Manu, we don't have the facilities. This would prolly explain why so little we pay for primary schooling.

We need to upgrade many of the physical first then technical structures. I mean hot class rooms with no ceiling fans and few windows after lunch make for an uncomfortable setting. Much less filling the need to learn.

Most schools lack the technology needed to help their students progress. A few schools depend on parents to generate test papers or notices to go out, since they don't have the equipment to do so themselves.

[gucci man]

thanks for the reply people.

But i agree with the notion that parents play an even more important role and we need more facilities. Infrastructure should be the talk of the day in jamaica.

If we need a better jamaica we need to first realize our short comings and weaknesses.

lack of Infrastructure
Crime (result of poor family structure hence poor education)
widening Trade deficit

[smiles]

Morning everyone.

as much as i want bruce to win i must write this article

It has come to my thoughts that a free primary and secondary education system will barely benefit Jamaicans.

Education in Jamaica right now is not 100% free but very affordable to the majority. Only a small minority will actually feel a great lift from the removal of fees.

Let me outline our present system.

1) avg primary school fee = free
2) avg secondary school fee = $5000*two terms = 10,000 for the year

with this system i find that many students, even after getting into high schools ARE NOT LEARNING anything. Research has shown a decline in performance of high school students at the cxc level.

Boys in particular are showing a declining interest in education.

Let me remind you that the govt is paying for 4 CXC subjects. Math, English, Information Technology and a science subject.

How more liberal can education get?

Lets take it to another level. Tertiary.

I am aware that Bruce was not going to cover tertiary level but i want to show you that getting an education in Jamaica is not constricted by funds as much as we think.

Majority of tertiary level students have accessed the Students' loan bureau to fund their way through college. Even myself have used this for my first year at college. I see people in college right now that cant even find lunch money or rent but are still in college and doing fairly well.

The conclusion is therefore that If students want to get educated, THEY WILL find ways and means to. In our high schools and primary schools, these kids are performing below par. This leads to a society of uneducated people who then turn to crime because they cant find a job that matches their educational background (none).

If free education is not the solution, then what is the solution?

Stay tuned

Well said.. :eusa_clap

Maybe they should redirect those funds (if they ever do acquire them) to maintaining and upgrading school facilities and re-developing the secondary and tertiaty meal programs... 10,000 per student and 1500 students per school thats a whopping $15MIL that can be put to much use every year...

Thinking that the stoosh kids wont eat the free food, that could feed more than 500 kids for the year, or put in a new computer lab, or toilets in the basic schools... eeeem you know how many kids' parent have paid their tuition yet they choose not to go to school, i'd rather not see my tax dollars wasted there... lets feed the good ones and give them book sif we can!!!!

[gucci man]

Yes, imagine if education is free. Nuff yute ago skip school and walk road

[Manu]

That's why my proposal is that they should pass legislation so that you need atleast 5 o'level passes to become a DJ or Dancehall entertainer. You know how many yutes wasting time writing lyrics instead of going to class so that they can hit it big?


Also, if you ago collect garbage... 5 CXC.... sanitation engineer. Motivate people to learn.... or force them if necessary. Special provisions should be made for those special exceptions. As such, wage and benefits would have to better compensate these workers.

[mead]

I went through my moment of embarrassment due to this school fee thing years ago. I recall it like it was yesterday:
I remember one day while in second form in High School, I think it was the middle of the first week of September, my form teacher entered the packed classroom holding a piece of paper, in front of everybody she proceeded to read off a list of names, my name was on the list. I sat there wondering what the hell was going on, I soon found out. After she finish reading the list she unceremoniously asked us to pack our bags and leave, because we did not paid our school fees!
I sat there for a couple of second trying to get over the shock, then quickly packed my bag and left, trying not to make eye contact with anybody in the class as I maneuver my way through the rows of benches with my head lowered and my eyes looking down on the floor. I felt so embarrassed. This happened all because my dad didn’t have the money at the time to pay the school fee!
Things might not be as bad now, but I know for a fact that teachers and school administrators will call up students name in front of the entire class and question them as to why they haven’t paid their school fees and pass their rude remarks while they’re at it.

[mead]

Unlike some of you I believe that the abolition of primary and secondary school fees is a good first step and will certainly help to lift some of the burden off parents who are struggling to send their child(ren) to school. I’m not sure what the High School fees are like now, but I hear figures of around $10,000 – $12,000. To some of you this might not look like much, for the poor this represent a significant amount which can be used to offset the cost of buying well needed text books, that teachers are constantly complaining the students are not purchasing, and to cover a few other daily expenses.

I certainly agree with all of you on the need for improvement in the facilities and the overall quality of education been provided. What we need to realize is that this free tuition plan is just the first step (and a bold step if you ask me) in the overall policy plans to transform the entire education system. So don’t dismiss the proposal, or try to dig up some negative because you and your fortunate friends can afford it.

[Manu]

That's just it mead. It's a step in the right direction. Along with other measures, this could be a start of a brand new attitude in people. It may not be... but atleast someone is doing something. Oh... as a matter of a fact... if I'm not mistaken, 4 out of the 5 candidates who were running for presidency, including Minister of Finance, Omar Davis... proposed free education as one of their goals if they should win. Hmm... why is it unfeasible now? And why all of them had all these plans but couldn't implement it until they were up for presidency? They were in malice with P.J.??

[nuhsenutten]

That's just it mead. It's a step in the right direction. Along with other measures, this could be a start of a brand new attitude in people. It may not be... but atleast someone is doing something. Oh... as a matter of a fact... if I'm not mistaken, 4 out of the 5 candidates who were running for presidency, including Minister of Finance, Omar Davis... proposed free education as one of their goals if they should win. Hmm... why is it unfeasible now? And why all of them had all these plans but couldn't implement it until they were up for presidency? They were in malice with P.J.??

free education would be awonderful thing ...there's just one problem who is gonna pay......

1. they r going to raise the education tax.....(that means we still pay)
2. borrow it.....(putting us further in debt)
3. the jlp's magic plan....... ( how are they gonna fund this)

[Manu]

Tax doesn't necessarily need to be raised. Better management of funds can suffice. look how much money has been lost in scandals and going home with politicians. Better educated society means more output.... which means more production... which means more money. Once we raise our literacy level... we'd attract more investments which means more jobs. Maybe this won't benefit us but it very well benefit our children and our children's children. You never save for something you want yet? Ban you belly... cut excess spending to have that one item. It's kinda the same thing. The ends should justify the means. And people wouldn't mind to see they're had earned tax money going to something which benefits them instead of buying MPs new vehicles.

[gucci man]

You guys dont understand what i'm saying. What i'm saying is Free Ed is good idea, but majority of people may just abuse it. Plenty can more than afford it and dont really NEED it.

I think there should be some form of proof that you need free education. Like for E.G your parents income are less than x, then u get free ed. More than x, then u dont.

also, depends on how many kids you sending to school.

Now you see what i mean?.

JLP, education is good. Continue focusing on the infrastructure to make a better jamaica.

INflation is another thing. High inflation = poor people, but No inflation = no growth. Hard equation to solve. Right now Britain is trying to combat inflation and can balance the equation. I know it takes time but they should focus on it nevertheless

[ramesh]

also, depends on how many kids you sending to school. Do you mean if the person has more children they will have a higher chance of getting funding? If so, Population Explosion!

[gucci man]

Do you mean if the person has more children they will have a higher chance of getting funding? If so, Population Explosion!

No man, I'm saying if they have 2 childrend and Net pay is 50 grand they dont need it, but if they have 6 kids then they take care of four for them.

in this world there should be no free lunches. Work for what u want, Life is a big competition. Those who endures to the end survices and are either rich, successful, comfortable,or all of the above

[ramesh]

No man, I'm saying if they have 2 childrend and Net pay is 50 grand they dont need it, but if they have 6 kids then they take care of four for them. That's what I'm saying, people will have extra children they can't afford to get extra benefits. Later on those same children will support them.

[g2cris]

Tuitionless education is a good start in educational/national/social/political reform - it means we are serious if nothing else.

NB. I am not pro JLP (infact i dispise thier history likewise the PNP) i'm just pro change. sitting around saying " a so it go" is definitely not the solution.

a smarter group of people would have realised that a long time ago. We can argue about the intricate details of how we can acomplish our goal of improving our society forever without any tangible results so we have to do so while making positive changes in order to realise our goals.

[distin]

free education would be awonderful thing ...there's just one problem who is gonna pay......

1. they r going to raise the education tax.....(that means we still pay)
2. borrow it.....(putting us further in debt)
3. the jlp's magic plan....... ( how are they gonna fund this)

thats the pro right there cause they cannot raise tax it is already too high, they cant borrow we ho too much
FREE EDUCATION WILL NEVER WORK

[Justice]

Which is more expensive: ignorance or financing education?

Everyday we quarrel about high crime rate; people who are educated are not firing guns! It is dunce head people who can’t make decision on their own. I have said it before that I would pay an additional 2% to finance free education, in fact I think people should stop contributing to NHT and use that money to finance the education transformation plan. The NHT has 54 billion dollars under management, how much more do they need?

[nuhsenutten]

whoa there's a twist to the tale.......raising the age at which children leave high school.....


http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20070731T000000-0500_125772_OBS_JLP_GOV_T_WILL_LIFT_SCHOOL_LEAVING _AGE_TO_____SAYS_GOLDING.asp

i think this is neither here nor there.......

bright 15 y/o coming thru ......(Bruce) hol im back fi me deh!

[Justice]

whoa there's a twist to the tale.......raising the age at which children leave high school.....


http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20070731T000000-0500_125772_OBS_JLP_GOV_T_WILL_LIFT_SCHOOL_LEAVING _AGE_TO_____SAYS_GOLDING.asp

i think this is neither here nor there.......

bright 15 y/o coming thru ......(Bruce) hol im back fi me deh!

You cannot [should not] enroll in university in Jamaica under the age of 18, unless you show signs of maturity and you may need to do an interview. Some students may bypass this rule. However, it is a rule and if the universities were to uphold it then a lot of students wouldn’t be in university. The point is, a lot of youngster at age 16 to 18 are extremely immature and should not be near a work place, a lot of them have no skills whatsoever (CXC is not a skill).

Furthermore, the article made specific reference to slow learner, students who may need to stay in school a bit longer to catch with other student. I suggest you read the full manifesto and not some summed up version of it.

Manifesto (http://www.jlpteam.com/manifesto/docs/JLP_Manifesto2007.pdf)



The white man need only to put something in a book for the black to miss it.

[nuhsenutten]

You cannot [should not] enroll in university in Jamaica under the age of 18, unless you show signs of maturity and you may need to do an interview. Some students may bypass this rule. However, it is a rule and if the universities were to uphold it then a lot of students wouldn’t be in university. The point is, a lot of youngster at age 16 to 18 are extremely immature and should not be near a work place, a lot of them have no skills whatsoever (CXC is not a skill).


isnt this why we have community colleges? So that we can prepare the students who arent quite ready academically and mentally to make the step from high school to university or the work place.



Furthermore, the article made specific reference to slow learner, students who may need to stay in school a bit longer to catch with other student. I suggest you read the full manifesto and not some summed up version of it.

Manifesto (http://www.jlpteam.com/manifesto/docs/JLP_Manifesto2007.pdf)


It also says nothing of the students who might be ahead of the system....so it is left to assume that wether u be slow fast or average the same rules apply....... y is this even an issue shouldnt the teachers be able to know which students are ready to make the step up to university without making it mandatory that those under acertain age wait?



The white man need only to put something in a book for the black to miss it.

i guess there's alot we all have missed then eh! :eusa_shif

[AngelsKiss]

Yes, imagine if education is free. Nuff yute ago skip school and walk road

People don't skip school because education is free. They skip school because their parents and the society as a whole don't care 2 hoots and the laws are not enforced.

Education is free in Barbados all the way to tertiary and yet they don't skip school. Education up to secondary level is free in Canada and people don't simply skip school.

I believe in free education granted it's not exactly free since it is paid for with tax money. However, I equally believe that the government must ensure that the laws are enforced that children are in school and that parents are held accountable.

There are certain basic necessities which should be universally available to the population of a country, education and health care. It should be paid for with taxes and not based on who can afford it.

A healthy, educated society makes for a better nation!

[jamerican]

What I would like to know where they going to get the money to do so????

[Manu]

Jamerican.... come on. Jamaica is a rich nation. How else cawe afford to "misplace" several billion dollars per year? Also... another thing....I think they should all go back and live in Vale Royal. The PMs that is. If they're building a private residence, it should come from their pocket but they should spend most of their time in Vale Royal. We're already paying for upkeep. Use the bloody thing then!

[smiles]

A lot of people don't realize that we sort of already have free education.

My last two years of high school were government funded, including a monthly stipend to cover bus fare.

Many Jamaicans are just too proud to use the cost sharing facility that is in place in [I'm assuming] all Jamaican high schools. When you don't have a choice however, it becomes a sweet delight.

Cost sharing covers the cost of school fees and book "rental", and I thought it was a very brilliant idea. All you have to do is go in to your guidance counselor and apply for it. You don't even need a parent to do it. I think the experience mead had was due to those parents who don't even have the decency (not directed at his parents) to go in to the school and explain the situation.

Its the same across all types of institutions. Banks, SLB, Courts - if you dont make contact and explain you have a problem, they will assume you trying to avoid payments. So whenever I run into problems and am unable to make any payment I will go in and discuss with whatever agency, and come up with a new payment date or re-work the re-payment plan...

This may be a bit harsh, but it is not only Jamaican but also human nature to run away from payments. Ah Jus Suh Wi Tan!

I think we should leave the system as it is. Those who need and and who deserve it, will get it. Those who will only accept freeness because everyone is doing it now... don't deserve my money.

[gucci man]

i agree.

the only person i would give free education to is sum1 with class avg >69%

[Manu]

There are pros and cons to every scenario. Don't knock a man for trying something new. If he fails... so be it. The existing system is woefully inadequate as is. Some people need the nudge... and the patience to move forward while others will exploit the system. In the current scenario... the good suffers for the bad. Those who can't afford it and have the determination find it hard. With this system, yes some people won't take advantage of the opportunity... yes the rich who can afford it will get a free ride... but atleast the blame will be shifted squarely to feet of the people and not the government. You can bring the horse to water right?

[root_gal]

I can haz frie edukacion?

On or before the 31st of August please.

[root_gal]

Can anyone say for certain whether or not tuition fees existed at the primary level before this new administration?

[Twinkie]

I think we should leave the system as it is. Those who need and and who deserve it, will get it. Those who will only accept freeness because everyone is doing it now... don't deserve my money.

:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

Let's see how this plays out, already they are 900 million over what they speculated this will cost, who's gonna pay that back?? The labourites? No we, de likkle man dem.

The point was made about NHT contributions, this is true. Everybody don't need to buy a house, but they sure the hell need an education.....:sold:

[Manu]

Especially Comrade....... :eusa_sile

[root_gal]

Can anyone say for certain whether or not tuition fees existed at the primary level before this new administration?
.................................................. ..............

[Manu]

When I used to attend Primary school, or just started, I know it was free. We used to get bun/bulla and chocolate milk too. That was discontinued after my 3rd year in Primary School. I don't know if school fees were discontinued also. I don't remember if we only paid for trips and extra lessons. I remember my train trip costing $25 and my mom paid for other students who couldn't afford it. I used to carry $10 to school and they all called me rich :confused: Far from it. I know I went off on a tangent but hope you'll forgive it.

[root_gal]

When I used to attend Primary school, or just started, I know it was free. We used to get bun/bulla and chocolate milk too. That was discontinued after my 3rd year in Primary School. I don't know if school fees were discontinued also. I don't remember if we only paid for trips and extra lessons. I remember my train trip costing $25 and my mom paid for other students who couldn't afford it. I used to carry $10 to school and they all called me rich :confused: Far from it. I know I went off on a tangent but hope you'll forgive it.

Lol, no, I won't forgive it cos I think if I put your life story in my press release I just might fail. Can't ask my teacher to forgive me :p

[mead]

Can anyone say for certain whether or not tuition fees existed at the primary level before this new administration?

NO tuition fees existed at primary school before this new administration. However as stated in another thread, SOME primary schools require parents to pay auxiliary fees to cover the cost of security, health insurance and sometime contributions to “school development fund".

[root_gal]

NO tuition fees existed at primary school before this new administration. However as stated in another thread, SOME primary schools require parents to pay auxiliary fees to cover the cost of security, health insurance and sometime contributions to “school development fund".

Oh okie. Thanx a bunch man.

[Justice]

You can never please people. I heard a stanch comrade tearing down the free tuition program before the election and now she cursing that she needs back her $7000 dollars which she paid for her daughter’s tuition, such hypocrisy.