Bush / Kerry Debate

[AngelsKiss]

Any one watching the debate? These are the 2 worst candiates the USA has ever had.

[Cocoa]

LOL Oh Lawd...I wish I can see it but I am at work now. :( I need to know the details so I can make my vote count.

[Chris]

Yup, watching it on an off in between some distractions around me. I'll soon settle down and watch it properly though.

[Arch_Angel]

Want to watch it, but all the tv's in my house are taken. You guys have to tell mi how it go.

[Cocoa]

Fi real I want to know exactly what went down. How long is it going to last anyway? Maybe I can caught it when I reach home.

[AngelsKiss]

I think I have had enough of them, they are just going around in circles.

[Cocoa]

Let me tel lyou. I came home and saw this debate all over again. Man! If I didn't know who to vote for in the beginning now I know.

President Bush's speech was repetitive, non-responsive to Kerry's points but consistent and stern in his decisions. Whether or not they were good decisions, he stood by them. However, he dismissed many fundamental issues by substituting them with repetitive comments. Issues such as Al Queda, Bin Laden, Oil, National securtiy, his decision for war and the troops. There were no plan in this debate. He stumbled alot and didn't have strong points to back up why? and what damaage he has done since his presidency.
Bush: good leader, strong christian beliefs, good morals but not the best voice at this time concerning his decisions made.

Senetor Kerry on the other hand seems as if he has a plan for the US and freedom as well as world affairs. He even spoke on the UN and you can tell that his favourtism was leaning towards the UN and their decisions. I honestly agree with him when he agreed with the President in saying that the the removal of Saddam was correct, yet the deployment of the troops were untimely and wrong place. His views were strong and logical and even if he was lying, he remained creditable because he had strong points in moving forward for the betterment of the country. I thought he was unwavery in his comments and addressed the deep issues of the people.
Kerry has now proven to me to be a good leader with a plan. A plan to aid and transform the betterment of the country. Addressing issues of world affairs, troops, oil, and national security.

The terrain of my heart is now left to this... the future for this country I live in. Now I know which side I am leaning to the strongest.

What were your thoughts on this debate guys?

[Cocoa]

Next......the closing statements were shammered by P. Bush. (Still defending himself and trying to convince America the reason for a war- shakey) He didn't seem too confident in convincing us but consistent and stern in his decision. To me he showed no remorse for the innocent lives that fought for this country and died. And this mix signals talk? Aww bwoy. Focus: Iraq as centre of war on terrorism. Icould hear however in his displaying great leadership is this 'behind' the scences work for his decisions. Good thought seem to be going into them (I think that he came with his best regardless of the fact that he seemed a little bit tired)...Bush: For his decisions.

Kerry's comments were strong, straight forward and bore true character to his decisions in the future of the country. He stated plans in whatever area that the President had failed to pick up and solve: Al Queda and Bin Laden. For the people.
Shoot, I think he had darn good points working with here.

[Greatis]

hmmm I wish you guys luck I don't have time to waste on watching that. It seems of little or no importance to me. I pratcially dispise Mr. Bushes way of gaining the presidency and he will win again mind you.

[Chris]

Let me respond to Greatis' post first.

The US presidential debates and subsequent elections are very important to us in Jamaica. We are so dependent on the US for many things that our relationship with them is dependent on who is president. Let's say that Kerry wins, it is my understanding that based on his foreign policies then most of the Jamaicans working for US companies would lose their jobs because Kerry will ensure that the parent company in the US would pay a hefty price (taxes) for outsourcing these jobs to foreign countries. Bush on the other hand has been more liberal and corporate friendlier and encouraged corporate growth even if it means striking a balance with outsourcing some jobs to foreign countries. If you follow the US news you'll see that one of the points of contention against Bush is that he hasn't done anything to secure US jobs. The reality that the Americans need to accept is that the world isn't only made up of the USA and that foreign countries can offer jobs to the US companies at a lower rate with equal if not better effeciencies. For a company to do well they will have to go where costs are lower.

JCB, I will agree and conceed that Kerry would appear to have won the debate based on his mannerism and "sweet mouth" while Bush seems to have been more subdued and not as sharp. You should listen though through the fluff and not be distracted by the fluff ;) If you really listen to Kerry you'll realise that he's eloquently saying a lot of nothing. Yup, hot air. He's talking more about what Bush did wrong than what he would do right. Talk about getting a global consensus before taking pre-emptive strikes to protect America :icon_lol: If he becomes president an he hears that the Al Queda is somewhere in the East with definite plans to attack some American city, what is he going to do? Convene a meeting at the UN and beg them for a unanymous vote to have bi-lateral talks with the Al Queda's leaders? LOL By the time the UN vote comes in we would be counting dead body on CNN. He needs to get REAL and stop playing dolly-house politics. We need a US president with a backbone, not the idea of what one should be like.

JCB, in a time of war you don't want a president to address the nation looking good on the outside alone, you want one with strong decisive convictions on the inside and one who is willing to live with the hard decisions that may not appear popular but is for the best.

BTW - Kerry voted for the war in Iraq but voted against approving the budget for more equipment for the troops.

[Cocoa]

He's talking more about what Bush did wrong than what he would do rightI did notice this in the debate and alot of 'I's too. Hmmm.

I will say Chris that I was neutral and was gearing towards Mr. Kerry after the debate.. But I love the points you made and it put me back into a neutral spot. :(

I don't know what to do! I consider the President a better leader, and very consistent with his decisions and believe wholeheartedly in his decisions. He must have been tired that day to it seems in getting beat up by the country.

Chris your thoughts make me think hard man. But I say I don't want to put Bush back into office only to see more destruction, deaths, and torn apart families. I am already saddened by the war even though I served in it. I do know also that a country needs a great leader and not one interested in himself and puts up a front in the face of the people.

I will think on these things.....Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Chris]

I see your dilemma JCB and they're reasonable ones. Thank God you live in a country where your local representatives (Senators, Governors, congressmen) actually pay attention to their constituents rather than just reaping votes for the PM ... err ... president. If you think that Bush is a better leader then so be it, you can also send a message to him to cut back on the troops in Iraq and elsewhere thru your local reps. I suspect though that he's actively looking a feasible way out.

Looking back thru your recent post another thing about Kerry came back to me. Any person who would keep bringing up their few years in the military as proof of leadership skills rather than his many more years in the Senate, then something is wrong. Especially when some of his military record claims are actually in question. What has he pointed to in his political record that we can use as examples of his "great" leadership skills?

[AngelsKiss]

Bush's Legacy

I don't think Kerry thought he needed to bring up his years in Senate. He brought up his years in the army because he knew that Bush skipped out of the army. There are many questionable reaons as to why Bush skipped out whehn he was up for his medical, like the issue of drugs.

Better yet ask what has Bush done for the USA since he has been in power.

Let's look at Bush's track record:

1. Trillion dollar cut for the rich.
2. Cut back on medicare. Drugs have skyrocketed and they are seeking to put a block on Americans getting cheaper drugs in Canada.
3. Cut back on veteran funding, the very same ppl who fought his dirty war.
4. The Pentagon cut payments for imminent danger and family separation for the troops ( the very same troops they claim to support). Payment cut due to budgetary constraint.
5. Sending his troops without the proper gears required to keep them safe. Not to mention exposing them to depleted uranium. Their Humvees were not even designed to with stand front-line combat. Parents have had to purchase flak jackets, etc. for their children.
6. Starting a war in Iraq that was unneccessary and based on a lie, sparking one of the biggest world wide demonstration ever seen. Lying to his own ppl and the rest of the world. This is the man America seeks to reelect. Yes we may say that all Govt's lie...but look at what this lie has created.
7. Entering the war without an exit strategy and wihtouht the support of the UN.
8. Over 1000 troops died for a lie...a lie about Iraq. Over 10,000 Iraqi civilians dead, no problem though they are just collateral damages. They did plan to shock and awe them, however the war still goes on and more troops and innocent ppl keep dying, even though Bush claimed mission accomplished.
9. Segregate the USA from the rest of the world.
10. Iraq has cost the approx USA $200B...while over 1.5M Americans lost their jobs since Bush came into power. The poor continue to get poorer and the rich richer or as he refer to them "the have mores." Bush's friends from Halliburton reaps the benefits from Irag and Afghanistan.
11. Ask Bush about Enron and his friendship with Kenny Boy Lay.
12. Recorded surplus gone to significant deficit.

We talk about the fact that Bush should bring home the troops. It can't and won't happen. He started the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, he should fix it. If you think he is gonna bring home the troops forget it. Neither Kerry nor Bush can do that. If anything look for the draft to be reinstated. The USA has over extended themselves. So much so that North Korea has no fear of the USA. When Bush was making noise about N Korea having WMD, the NK President basically told him yes we do and so what. Most importantly, the USA has lost the respect of most the world. If Americans think that because they are a super power, they don’t need the rest of the world they better think again. China is right there ready and waiting to charge ahead.

Thisi s going to sound harsh, but frankly speaking I wouldn't mind seeing Bush win again...if Americans refuse to wake up and face reality, they deserved to get screwed by this administration. The only drawback is the impact it will have on the rest of the world and the few sensible Americans who see this administration for what it really is.

Bush uses God when it suits his purpose and fool too many people with his so called morality.

[BMGrip]

I did watch the debates and I thought that Bush did a lousy job. Of course hes not a good debater. But I thought Kerry one that one hands down. We will see what to next debates hold. I believe they have two more debates to go so I will be watching to see what happens. I plan on voting in November, so I keepin a close watch on things. Got to get back to the events. try to pop back again.

[AngelsKiss]

Of course the debates shouldnt be the lone deciding factor about whether a person vote or not. In any event, most of Shrub's response was "It's hard work". I had to laugh, every time he said it with that pained look on his face:)

Like anybody told him being Commander in Chief was going to be an easy task.

World Seems to Think Kerry Came Out Ahead (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1001-01.htm)

Personally I thought Kery could have been more emphatic in his response and not be so laid back and almost casual. He had the points and the facts but they came across way too casual as if he was trying to go easy on the President.

[Kitten]

Here is a link if you would like to view the video of the debate again. Click video and then real player to view it.


www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134152,00.html

[Chris]

Thanks for the link Kitten. It didn't occur to me that I could watch it online at my own time.

[Kitten]

No Problem. Thats exactly what I've been doing watching it online. :)

[AngelsKiss]

Bush/Kerry standings on the various issues. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5993610)

[Chris]

Who will be watching the second Presidential debate tomorrow? In my book the score is 1-1, but after tomorrow it will look like 2-1 in favour of the Bush team :)

[Cocoa]

I will watch it tomorro....oh lawd, I know what I am going to hear again. Chris and his comments going to shame....Bush disappointing him. Hmm mm mmm..Chris you better wear protection for the beat up Bush is going to get.

[AngelsKiss]

Who will be watching the second Presidential debate tomorrow? In my book the score is 1-1, but after tomorrow it will look like 2-1 in favour of the Bush team :)

In your dreams Chris:)

[Chris]

bwoy look like my man better come good tomorrow or else I will have to hide from some people around here :eusa_pray

[Cocoa]

bwoy look like my man better come good tomorrow or else I will have to hide from some people around here :eusa_pray :eusa_pray Chris: why are you scared? Say the 'Our father" yah. :D :eusa_pray

[AngelsKiss]

bwoy look like my man better come good tomorrow or else I will have to hide from some people around here :eusa_pray

LOL...Pity I won't be able to watch it for myself to see his face. As someone wrote, watching Bush "speak was like watching a drunken man cross and icy road, funny and tragic at the same time." An apt description if you ask me :D

[Chris]

Bush did much better in the second than he did in the first debate. Kerry is a good debater, I grant him that. Pity he has debating skills but no substance to back it. Bush on the other hand isn't a good debater, but has the substance.

As for the score ... this one looks like a tie to me.

[Cocoa]

Finally a tie.. that needs to break loose. The American people is getting a lil confused as to who to choose.

*May God not only bless but help America and you Lord choose the right president for this country.* :eusa_pray

That's all I have to say where these debates are concerned.

[prodmaster]

Well there is one more debate to go look for it this Wednesday!!! :icon_eek:

[RobyG]

Bush did much better in the second than he did in the first debate. Kerry is a good debater, I grant him that. Pity he has debating skills but no substance to back it. Bush on the other hand isn't a good debater, but has the substance.

Yup I agree totally with Chris. To me, Kerry & Edwards seem to play on peoples emotions

[Kitten]

Do you actually believe what Bush has to say bears substance? I really dont think so at all. Do you not remember the casualties that have been going on daily because of the war and what explanation does he give for remaining in that country. Do you know anyone in that war who has their life on the line every day. I dont agree that what he says bears substance and I would like to know how anyone else could want to praise this man for the atrocities that he has caused. What are people doing turning a blind eye, because it does not directly involve their family or loved one.

[Nandii]

Kerry won both of those debates by a landslide. Bush did improve, but by like 1% or something. When he's stumped, he becomes silent, stutters and can't get his thoughts together. This is why Cheney, Powell and Rice are always meeting with the heads of other nations instead of the supposed HEAD of THIS NATION. Every world leader considers him a joke. That's dangerous to the security of America. In each debate, it was as if he were speaking from a script he had been told to study and when he hesitated, you could visually see him trying to remember what he had been programmed to say. He can't even memorize a script well. He CAN'T think on his feet. That's why he doesn't meet with heads of other nations. And, when he does, he always looks out of place. He's an embarrassment. A PITIFUL embarrassment.

[AngelsKiss]

I missed the second debate...but I have a funny feeling I didn't miss much, just more of the same.

I already know that the only thing Shrubs and his cronies have to offer is more death and destruction and making his rich friends richer.

As far as Kerry is concern he is an alternative to Shrubs, not the best one, but I think he can bring back some respect to the White House and the American ppl.

[ActorRod]

No point in watching. The question is do I want four more years of Bush's lies and deceptions or not? The answer is, of course, "NO WAY!!!" So the obvious vote goes to Kerry. A vote for Nader or any other is just a wasted vote, so there is no other choice.

[Chris]

Interesting how people are against Bush but haven't put up factual reasons ... only propaganda fueled by the Kerry camp ;) The way that I see it, is that Kerry is more of a deceiver than Bush, if at all he is. Look at how Kerry has no solid response regarding the era when he verbally betrayed his Vietnam war colleagues. What ever happened to Kerry's book that he wrote after giving testimony? Why is he hiding it? What doesn't he want you to see and read in it?

[Kitten]

Hello, I know someone in Iraq right now and someone who was there and came back so dont tell me im going on propaganda. You can say those things because you dont live in the United States and are not directly involved as people are here. You have no idea the effect Bush has cause for the American poor here. The cost and affect of the amout of billions of dollars for these wars. Bush can say and do anything for he is not for the average American and underpriviledged. When you can walk in the shoes of the average american who has to go through these things then maybe you will see. And then you can say who should be president and who is spreading propaganda.

[AngelsKiss]

Interesting how people are against Bush but haven't put up factual reasons ... only propaganda fueled by the Kerry camp ;) The way that I see it, is that Kerry is more of a deceiver than Bush, if at all he is. Look at how Kerry has no solid response regarding the era when he verbally betrayed his Vietnam war colleagues. What ever happened to Kerry's book that he wrote after giving testimony? Why is he hiding it? What doesn't he want you to see and read in it?

Chris when you made a sweeping statement like people have been putting up propaganda spread by Kerry's camp, you need to back it up with some examples ;)

I have some questions for you:

1) How do you know that what ppl have to say is propaganda spread by Kerry's camp?

2) What specifically are you refering to as propaganda?

3) I have made some statements in respect to Bush/Chenney team, are those propaganda too?

4) Why have you not address some of the issues I put up in respect to Bush/Chenney, especially the issue of the war?

5) How do you know that much of what is being said by the Bush camp about Kerry is not propaganda?

I can only speak for myself when I say that it's not so much that I think Kerry is an ideal candiate to run the USA, not that I have a say in the matter. However, I would rather see someone new than have a team like Bush/Kerry running the USA, if for no other reason than the fiasco in Iraq and believe that's not the only reason, but for me its good enough!

:)

[AngelsKiss]

Pictures of the Fallen Soldiers (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/casualties/facesofthefallen.htm)

[ramesh]

Kerry is not as hard hitting as he should have been. I think secretly he supports the war in Iraq. He has not asked the relevant questions or not followed up on Bush's mistakes.

[Cocoa]

I can only speak for myself when I say that it's not so much that I think Kerry is an ideal candiate to run the USA, not that I have a say in the matter. However, I would rather see someone new than have a team like Bush/Kerry running the USA, if for no other reason than the fiasco in Iraq and believe that's not the only reason, but for me its good enough!

:)I agree. I wish I could vote for BILL CLINTON. Vote for Bill.

At this stand point today, I still donot know who to vote for....I donot see Kerry as a strong leader or candidate for President of the US and I donot want Bush in office. They have left us with these 2 candidates to choose from...:( So I am neutral right now...I have no clue who I am going to vote for.

[Zoley!]

RATIONALISM!!!!!! :eusa_pray

[Cocoa]

Is that what you think about the whole debate Zoley? (rationalism?) Let us know fo sure.

Anyway this is my 2 cents on the debate here: (last one that is)....Sorry, but I am in a neutral state right now where these 2 candidate for President are concerned.

I heard the truth, facts, lies and opinions from both of them. I think Kerry spoke alot on the President and what he did, was suppose to do and have done. However, he included alot of 'I want to..I will do..I, I, I" as if he was in pain. Sounds to me that he wanted to do "better" for the country, however, doesn't presents the plans to back up what he will do.

Bush on the other hand.....whether his plans are wrong or right, he presents his 'plans' and proceeds to address current and future issues with them.

Point in case: Illegal Aliens in the US: Kerry said that he will 'crank down more on the system of people hiring illegal aliens in the US', Bush proposed the idea of having more security at the borderlines, however, if they do come in and settle for better opportunities, then they should have a right to receive a temporary card for work and travel to and fro in their home country. Which would lead to less security at the borders.

I liked this plan that the President propsed and I thought about it....he has good morals and he has set standards where things of the Bible is concerned. More and more I see myself checking off for each candidate in "my original list of things to look for when choosing a president":1. Is this person good with political and economical issues? How efficient is he?

2. What have this person done in the past that has helped in boosting his reputation?

3. What are the pros and cons in the selection process of both Bush and Kerry?

5. Militant issues? Issues of National Security ?

6. Is this person a strong leader?

7. Does this person display projected positive plans for the future of the country?

8. What is he doing now to secure and assure the country that he/she will be a good delegate for the position?

9. World affairs....what is his views on that and waht direction is he leading towards that?

10. What is his foundation built on if he is choosen to be President?



Finally, tonight, Kerry demonstrated this: A whole bunch of talk about 'things' and how he will improve them (I will mentality) and he presented no potential plans to my ears.
Bush showed me some 'plans' whether wrong or right...showing me that he has a vision nonetheless. (Withoout a vision, the people perish).

After that debate nonetheless, I am still neutral and donot know who I will vote for. :eusa_sile

[Tastee]

I think you might check the meaning of the word (rationalism).

[AngelsKiss]

I made it a point of duty not to comment on the last debate since its a waste of time at this point. However, I have been reading some interesting if not funny articles:

The Last Debate (Thankfully) (http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1014-28.htm)

This had me cracking up:

"Bush's demeanor was markedly improved from the first debate--but he remains a repulsive and simpleminded little twit." :icon_mrgr

Bush Goes MIA (http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1014-33.htm)

[ActorRod]

Interesting how people are against Bush but haven't put up factual reasons ... only propaganda fueled by the Kerry camp ;) The way that I see it, is that Kerry is more of a deceiver than Bush, if at all he is. Look at how Kerry has no solid response regarding the era when he verbally betrayed his Vietnam war colleagues. What ever happened to Kerry's book that he wrote after giving testimony? Why is he hiding it? What doesn't he want you to see and read in it?

As far as Kerry's past... well, do you talk a lot about things in YOUR past? It's over and done with. People grow and change over the years. Vietnam was 30-40 years ago. How much have you changed in that time period? I would look at the man's most recent record and not the past. You can't change what's in the past. So, I am not basing my vote on "propaganda," but am basing it on Bush's record of lies. FACT, the CIA has now admitted there are no WMDs in Iraq. FACT, over 1000 American men (husbands, brothers, uncles, sons) have been killed in a war based on lies of WMDs in Iraq. FACT, Bush's tax cuts benefited the upper income people, not lower income. FACT, we went from a surplus budget to a record deficit budget in under 3 YEARS. His performance record over that past four years sucks and he needs to go. I find it interesting that Clinton was impeached yet not removed from office all due to a lie about a sexual misconduct, yet Bush's lies and misconduct, which have cost millions of dollars and lost lives in an unpopular war and has ruined the reputation of the US worldwide, have not started any impeachment hearings. There is something wrong with this picture, don't you think?

[BMGrip]

Sometimes people make comments and they dont realize how it effects someone else. I know Kittens ol man is there and she has been having a hard time with that. But I say she was very cool with her answer. You were a cool kitten that time. Its hard on alot of families and everyone is just plain tired and stressed over the whole damn war thing. Bush he would never get my vote. God Bless everyone over there.

[AngelsKiss]

http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/Columns/Editorial/editorial39.htm

[ActorRod]

Thanks for that link! I couldn't have said it any better than that.

So, anybody for four more years of that? I hope not. If he does get reelected, I'm moving to Jamaica!!!

[AngelsKiss]

Thanks for that link! I couldn't have said it any better than that.

So, anybody for four more years of that? I hope not. If he does get reelected, I'm moving to Jamaica!!!
LOL...imagine 4 years of Shrubs and then another 8 years of Dick if he decideds to run which I doubt or hope against since he is sick.

[ActorRod]

Ain't that the truth?!?!!! So, Lick Bush and Beat Dick. Vote Kerry/Edwards!!!

[AngelsKiss]

Ain't that the truth?!?!!! So, Lick Bush and Beat Dick. Vote Kerry/Edwards!!!
LOL...I woulda said burn bush and beat dick :)

Anyway, I can't help with this problem, I live in Canada not the USA :)

Still it's a scary thought when you think of 4 more years with that clown and a further 8 with the warlord!

[Cocoa]

And now the election day is here....and the voting is on...and America and the world is waiting...
9:33pm points standing... B: 162 K: 112

[Cocoa]

11:13pm.... bush 219............kerry 199

[ramesh]

It's now 246 : 196

[Arch_Angel]

You should know that the proposed election votes are different from each news network. And they are only a proposal to the info they have so far. So you need to state which news network you are getting your proposed electoral votes and to stick to that network for the proposals. At least that's what I am doing. :)

[Arch_Angel]

Kerry has conceded defeat. He will be making his speech at about 1 pm Eastern according to CNN. Bush will be making his speech at 3 pm Eastern.