Do you tithe?

[mead]

Just wondering if you guys tithe on a regular basis, I’m not referring to dropping a smalls in the collection plate but paying 10% of your salary to the church or some other charitable organization in accordance with biblical teaching?

Some people swear by the practice of tithing and consider it integral to their spiritual development and of course to wealth creation. So do you tithe willingly and unselfishly, don’t tithe at all or struggle with it because you don’t make enough to spear or feel uncomfortable with how the money is being spent - Pastor driving a big car, unnecessary massive expansion of the church building etc..?

[Manu]

I used to...........................

[bernie]

I do tithe because the Bible instructs that this is to be done. I don't care what the leader does with the money, whether expansions or vehicles, as long as I give my 10% then I am ok.

[Xenocrates]

You are all misinformed. Tithing was a requirement for the wandering Israelites in the Old Testament because the Levites didn't have any way of making money for themselves as they were dedicated to the priesthood. The Bible teaches in the new testament that "God loves a cheerful giver". Tithing is not mentioned once in the New Testament. This is the new commandment:

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

- So if you're still giving 10%, then God won't count it as coming from your heart. If you can give 10%, then nothing should be stopping you from giving 15%, 50% or even nothing. You are not under any law to give a specific amount. Any preacher telling you otherwise is scamming the whole lot of you.

You guys need to study your Bible more. Your naivette will be to your disdain.

[ramesh]

And Jesus answered and said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

Mark 12:17

[bernie]

Tithing began before the law was introduced. The Law simply regulated the tithe. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law, and according to Romans 4:12 we are to walk in the footsteps of the faith of Abraham. If tithing was good for him, it should be good for us, too.

We give tithes like Abraham gave them—not by the Law but by faith. And beside that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law, and ten percent under the Law, shouldn't we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant (Heb 7:22).

There is a passage in Hebrews, which deals with this issue directly. It is Hebrews 7:8:

In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.

Melchizedek received Abraham’s tithe. The Hebrew writer shows that Melchizedek is a prefigure of Christ. We can conclude that just as Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek we give a tithe to Christ who is declared to be living.

Some people think this is a new issue. It is as old as the second century when more and more Gentiles were being converted. The early Jewish believers had no problem with tithing since they had done it under the Law and gave it to the priests. They simply gave their tithe to the elders of the church and did by love. However, as the church became less Jewish this issue came up to the church fathers. They answered the question of tithing with Matthew 23:23:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Notice Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter (justice, mercy and faithfulness), without neglecting the former (tithing)." The fathers argued, and rightful so, that Jesus word ends the discussion. Since Jesus said not to neglect the former—being tithing—then no believer should neglect tithing. I wholeheartedly agree!

Paul also uses the pattern of tithing under the law in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and says,

Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Paul argues that just as the priests got their food from the tithes of the people, so the preachers should live the same way. This passage clearly shows the mentality of the apostle and his understanding of carrying over the concept of tithing into the church. The passage often used to contradict this is 2 Corinthians 9:7:

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

The argument goes something like this: "Each believer has a right to decide for himself what to give and should not be told what percentage he should contribute."

The problem with this argument is that the above passage is not dealing with giving to support the church, but rather giving to the poor. Under the Law, giving to the poor was a freewill offering. The Law commanded freewill offerings as well as tithes:

Taken from here... (http://www.tbm.org/is_tithing_new_testament.htm)

[Manu]

For awhile I thought these were all Bernie's thoughts and was about to commend him for it. It's still his best post ever... even if it's "copy and paste" :)

[Justice]

I do tithe because the Bible instructs that this is to be done. I don't care what the leader does with the money, whether expansions or vehicles, as long as I give my 10% then I am ok.

I want to start a church with people just like you ;)

[Xenocrates]

:icon_arro Bernie

Brejin, try to think for yourself for once. There's nowhere in that Deutoronomy scripture that insinuates that the passage in 2 Corinthians refers to a "freewill" offering. The writer merely alluded to the two scriptures in the same context because they are vaguely similar. I've seen this kind of tripe before and I'm sick of it. It's called intellectual dishonesty and it only works on people who are too lazy to do their own Bible study. This is where people who are trying to prove a point using highly subjective content, "bluff" the facts because the source scripture is so vague that it can quite literally be interpreted any which way they want. The bottom line is that the scripture makes absolutely NO reference whatsoever that inextricably ties tithing and freewill offerings. The writer is making a guess, not stating a fact. This is one of the many reasons why I no longer read these religious publications. So much of it is based on vague extrapolation that it makes the whole concept of religion seem like a joke of epic proportions.

[mead]

You are all misinformed. Tithing was a requirement for the wandering Israelites in the Old Testament because the Levites didn't have any way of making money for themselves as they were dedicated to the priesthood. The Bible teaches in the new testament that "God loves a cheerful giver". Tithing is not mentioned once in the New Testament. This is the new commandment:



- So if you're still giving 10%, then God won't count it as coming from your heart. If you can give 10%, then nothing should be stopping you from giving 15%, 50% or even nothing. You are not under any law to give a specific amount. Any preacher telling you otherwise is scamming the whole lot of you.

You guys need to study your Bible more. Your naivette will be to your disdain.

OK then, guess I was misinformed then?:eusa_thin:eusa_thin after all these
years.
So what are the views of the other Christians around here?

[duster]

I do tithe because the Bible instructs that this is to be done. I don't care what the leader does with the money, whether expansions or vehicles, as long as I give my 10% then I am ok.



wrong approach. you must care what the preacher is doing with your tithe. he has a duty to be a responsible in carnal matters. HOLD your leaders accountable!

[root_gal]

I do tithe because the Bible instructs that this is to be done. I don't care what the leader does with the money, whether expansions or vehicles, as long as I give my 10% then I am ok.

Obviously you don't work very hard for your money since you can just throw it away and make people possibly do foolishness with it and not even care.

[Juliet]

Obviously you don't work very hard for your money since you can just throw it away and make people possibly do foolishness with it and not even care.

My dear girl, this is where your relationship with God and guidance of the Holy Spirit comes in.... (You will know what is from what is not under this guidance)
In any case, I have learned a long time ago God will bring justice, and that I should never take it into my own hands. Obey God's word, and he will take care of everything else. (even the people that dare to mismanage money collected from tithes and offering)

[Manu]

Obviously you don't work very hard for your money since you can just throw it away and make people possibly do foolishness with it and not even care.

You are focusing too much on the act of giving.... and that is what Bernie is getting at. He gives because he wants to... so he has done his deed. If men want to corrupt the will of good then he himself shall not be held accountable. He is at peace for he has fulfilled his christian rite. Whether it is foolhardy or not, he believes in it and he can probably attribute his blessings to it... whether that is a fact or not. He has what eludes alot of people and that is peace of mind.

Some people focus too much on money and that is why you will never have enough or have any for that matter. It can and will be taken away eventually. "A fool and his money shall soon part". I say God bless you Bernie and continue to stick to what you believe in.

[bernie]

You are focusing too much on the act of giving.... and that is what Bernie is getting at. He gives because he wants to... so he has done his deed. If men want to corrupt the will of good then he himself shall not be held accountable. He is at peace for he has fulfilled his christian rite. Whether it is foolhardy or not, he believes in it and he can probably attribute his blessings to it... whether that is a fact or not. He has what eludes alot of people and that is peace of mind.

Some people focus too much on money and that is why you will never have enough or have any for that matter. It can and will be taken away eventually. "A fool and his money shall soon part". I say God bless you Bernie and continue to stick to what you believe in.

Well said Manu, and I thank you very much for your blessings. ;)

[root_gal]

You are focusing too much on the act of giving.... and that is what Bernie is getting at. He gives because he wants to... so he has done his deed. If men want to corrupt the will of good then he himself shall not be held accountable. He is at peace for he has fulfilled his christian rite. Whether it is foolhardy or not, he believes in it and he can probably attribute his blessings to it... whether that is a fact or not. He has what eludes alot of people and that is peace of mind.

Some people focus too much on money and that is why you will never have enough or have any for that matter. It can and will be taken away eventually. "A fool and his money shall soon part". I say God bless you Bernie and continue to stick to what you believe in.

What he 'believes in' seems to be led by blind faith. What is the point of doing something just because you are told to do it without understanding (or caring) why. That is what seems foolish to me and it is parting him from his money alright. There is nothing wrong with giving. I was addressing the fact that he did not care what was being done with his money. I think that defeats the purpose of what he is doing. But he is entitled to as he pleases. In fact, I would love to start an organization with a couple thousand Christian people just like Bernie. Seems like a lucrative business :eusa_thin.

[bernie]

What he 'believes in' seems to be led by blind faith. What is the point of doing something just because you are told to do it without understanding (or caring) why. That is what seems foolish to me and it is parting him from his money alright. There is nothing wrong with giving. I was addressing the fact that he did not care what was being done with his money. I think that defeats the purpose of what he is doing. But he is entitled to as he pleases. In fact, I would love to start an organization with a couple thousand Christian people just like Bernie. Seems like a lucrative business :eusa_thin.

You still miss the point. Whether or not the Pastor does well with what is given, doesn't affect me since I would be giving anyway. That Pastor would now have to answer to God concerning the attitude in which it is received and used. It's not my place to judge my elder, that's God's job.

[duster]

You still miss the point. Whether or not the Pastor does well with what is given, doesn't affect me since I would be giving anyway. That Pastor would now have to answer to God concerning the attitude in which it is received and used. It's not my place to judge my elder, that's God's job.




Bernie if you know for sure not speculation that a pastor is misusing the money. as a man of God you should not sit back and watch people do unrightiousness with what belongs to God. The God in you should not allow that. Would you sit back and watch a man rob you daddy? ofcourse not. If Gods tithe is being misused you can channel that money elsewhere like feed the homeless, elderly, or donate it to some other christian charity work,etc. if you feel u must give to local church the donate it elsewhere. Dont be blinded be religious observance... give to God and make sure his money is being used properly. The bible says we should be good stewards. And like i said, in my prior post "hold your leaders accountable" what you seal on earth will be sealed in heaven. If everyone in the church community had your attitude toward the misuse of money, then these "unsaved" pastors with get away with much more! I know in the end God will punish then but at the same time you have a responsiblity also to uphold Gods judgements. Sometimes im tempted to beat them with a whip like what Jah did when he was in the flesh.

[Arch_Angel]

You still miss the point. Whether or not the Pastor does well with what is given, doesn't affect me since I would be giving anyway. That Pastor would now have to answer to God concerning the attitude in which it is received and used. It's not my place to judge my elder, that's God's job.Bernie is being obedient by tithing, not to the church but to God.

Now I don't know how any member can prove their pastor is stealing or misusing the offering, without actually looking at church accounts and probably doing an audit of their accounts. Seeing them drive a big car can't be proof enough.

BUT, if someway somehow, you have some indication that your leader or leaders are being dishonest, either in the offering or in some other affairs (sexual relations, stealing, other sins) then maybe you should be thinking about a new church family, instead of telling God you not tithing anymore and being disobedient? A decision I think you would talk with God about, before making the decision.

Just my few cents

[bernie]

Bernie is being obedient by tithing, not to the church but to God.

Now I don't know how any member can prove their pastor is stealing or misusing the offering, without actually looking at church accounts and probably doing an audit of their accounts. Seeing them drive a big car can't be proof enough.

BUT, if someway somehow, you have some indication that your leader or leaders are being dishonest, either in the offering or in some other affairs (sexual relations, stealing, other sins) then maybe you should be thinking about a new church family, instead of telling God you not tithing anymore and being disobedient? A decision I think you would talk with God about, before making the decision.

Just my few cents

That's a very good point. It would be better (if I am uncomfortable with my Pastor's bahavior) if I moved to another church. Duster mentioned that it would be better to donate the money otherwise, but good intentions are not always good enough with God. I can't decide, all by my lonesome, where God's money should go, other than the church which I belong. Also, I can't fight for God; he fights for me. If God is God, then he can defend what is his. You (Duster) can't compare God (the omn-potent, Omni-present, Omni-cient) with my earthly and limited father.

[duster]

. Duster mentioned that it would be better to donate the money otherwise, but good intentions are not always good enough with God. I can't decide, all by my lonesome, where God's money should go, other than the church which I belong. Also, I can't fight for God; he fights for me. If God is God, then he can defend what is his. You (Duster) can't compare God (the omn-potent, Omni-present, Omni-cient) with my earthly and limited father.

dude i'm not telling you to fight Gods battle. But if you are on the lords side then you should fight with him. if the spirit of God is within you then you are of him. Never make a religious obligation cause you to support unrighteousness. You notice that all churches disagree on everything in the Bible except for tithes:eusa_thin Ask yourself why. Some wear jewelry, some drink, some believe in trinity some don't, etc, etc but all believe you should give a tenth and that is mentioned nowhere in the new testament. I give to God more than a tenth i dont limit my blessing to 10% but im not gonna support a pastor who is misusing Jah money... No way

[root_gal]

That's a very good point. It would be better (if I am uncomfortable with my Pastor's bahavior) if I moved to another church. Duster mentioned that it would be better to donate the money otherwise, but good intentions are not always good enough with God. I can't decide, all by my lonesome, where God's money should go, other than the church which I belong. Also, I can't fight for God; he fights for me. If God is God, then he can defend what is his. You (Duster) can't compare God (the omn-potent, Omni-present, Omni-cient) with my earthly and limited father.

Bernie, if your pastor was using the money earned from tithes to fund terrorist organizations which would in turn be responsible for the deaths of millions of people and you knew about this, would you give anyway (and not continue not to care)? Since you are 'not responsible for fighting God's battles', I am assuming you would just turn a blind eye. Based on your reasoning, once you are fulfilling what you should do, then you do not care about anything else. This somehow does not seem to relate to any of the tenets on which Christianity is based. I agree with Duster, if you are on the Lord's side, it is your duty to fight with him and to support what is right. Doing nothing is sometimes just as bad as doing the wrong thing.

[bernie]

You both have missed my point, and as such, i'm thru with this discussion. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[Manu]

I think you people are playing Devil's advocate and making an issue out of a none issue. Your are contorting my words to use it "against" (for lack of a better word) Bernie. Ignorance is the main issue here. Bernie gives his tenth freely and without prejudice so he does not sit and wonder if the pastor is using it for the right things. He prays about it and ask for God's guidance. If he found out that his pastor was using the money for ill deeds then ofcourse he would, after prayer, stop giving his money to that church. Funding a terrorist organization is a none issue because many of you here support the US economy by buying their foods, wearing their clothes and watching their shows and there is no bigger terrorist organization than the US.... so live and let live.

[D'Orizinal]

This is a pretty intense discussion. So I have a question for you guys do you think that churches should publish monthly financial statements?

[duster]

This is a pretty intense discussion. So I have a question for you guys do you think that churches should publish monthly financial statements?

Not really. All you need to do is call a quarterly business conference. when all details of the finances are made known so the entire congregation can inquire.