Chivalry?...

[Cocoa]

A guy opened the door for me and I smiled and said thank you. I haven't seen that in ages. What about the days of spreading the jacket for a woman to sit on? Does this still go on in society today? How do you feel about it? Any personal experiences?

[Drew]

i still do it. but i tend to do it less to women who show appreciation.

i opened the door for a young lady in the mall one day, she started to cuss me about letting her do things for herself.

that was a bad one and now a good. i went to the movie with a friend of mine and she was getting really cold, so i took off my outer shirt and gave it to her. she started to cry cause i was so sweet. and she really showed me her gratitude.[nothing sexual iite]

i think guys should still do it, but guys always laugh after their buds of crap like you'll do anything for her, or u woman hav u on a leash crap like that.

but women don't normally show their appreciation for it.

[Cocoa]

Do you think the lack of appreciation is a result of some women thinking they are too independent? I mean every woman regardless of how rough and tough they think they are, they want to be treated like a lady.

I donot mind any form of chivalry at all. In fact, I will return the favor as well if a guy allows. (depending on the guy and what he will like to be done).

[AngelsKiss]

I am very independent...actually my friends say too much so. However, I still like a guy to be chivalrous. I am old fashion that way :)

[Tastee]

I have guys doing stuff for me all the time its there. My fiancee is really good about that and I love when he wants to do those things. Opening the car door or holding an umbrella up for you. I get that on the train alot. Some guys still no how to treat women. :)

[Drew]

i'm not sure. maybe they are just ungrateful. maybe they are just not used to it, maybe lots of things. but when they don't say thanks, or giv a smile of apprecition the more and more 1 particular lady shows it, its the less i do it for her.

i want to feel like what i'm doing is appreciated.

[Kitten]

I love it when men pay attention and when they give you compliments. A guy I work with and hes not the only one but he stands out right now. He always ask if he can get me a cup of coffee or if i need something hes going out on break. Hes very courteous with the ladies on the job. I like when they will hold the elevator for you or let you go first if your getting on the metro or entering an establishment. Chivalry is not dead. There are men who still remember what they moms taught them.

[ramesh]

So is the Women's Lib movement dead or not? Do women want to be treated as weaker or as equals :icon_ques

[Drew]

come on ramesh, that topic was touched already. :icon_mrgr

[BlackCryptoKnight]

How many of you women perform chivalrous deeds for men? How many women treat men the way they want to be treated? Wouldn't it be great if people did nice, considerate things for others regardless of their gender?

:eusa_thin

[Drew]

fi real still. i want to be treated special also. i have need. nice one bck :icon_clap

[AngelsKiss]

@Ramesh...I don't think because we have women's Lib mean it should affect chivalry. Womens Lib came about because women were not allowed certain things in society such as voting priveledges, certain jobs, etc.

@BCK... I am all for us doing nice things for each other, but come on now, don't you think you are taking it a bit to the extreme man?:) Yep and if I am going thru the door I hold it open for anyone behind. However, if I am going into a car or am been seated, you don't expect me to open the door for the man or hold the chair for him do you? It's not because we are the weaker sex, it's just the way it is and is suppose to be or I should say I would like it to be.

[Greatis]

How many of you women perform chivalrous deeds for men? How many women treat men the way they want to be treated? Wouldn't it be great if people did nice, considerate things for others regardless of their gender?

:eusa_thin

Hey you first me to it ;)

[BlackCryptoKnight]

@BCK... I am all for us doing nice things for each other, but come on now, don't you think you are taking it a bit to the extreme man?:)

No I don't. Why would it be considered extreme to extend the same courtesies to men that women receive from men?


Yep and if I am going thru the door I hold it open for anyone behind. However, if I am going into a car or am been seated, you don't expect me to open the door for the man or hold the chair for him do you?

Why not? What is wrong with doing that?


It's not because we are the weaker sex, it's just the way it is and is suppose to be or I should say I would like it to be.

So by that reasoning, women should still be treated as property, not allowed to vote, remain at home to cook, clean and raise children, and please their man since that is how it was for a loooong time and is how plenty people thought it should be... :eusa_thin

[Tastee]

How many of you women perform chivalrous deeds for men? How many women treat men the way they want to be treated? Wouldn't it be great if people did nice, considerate things for others regardless of their gender?

:eusa_thin

I always treat my man good. :icon_mrgr And other people too.

[Tastee]

Anyway I dont know about womens lib that was probably before I was born that movement.

[AngelsKiss]

LOL...the men on here seems to have alot of issues where women are concerned. You know life is a 2 way street, you have the good and the bad in just about every thing. We have good women and bad women, the same applies for the men.

I usually hesitate to jump into these types of forums, because too many times I see generalise statements about the sexes.

The way I see it is, men and women are different, I accept the men for who they are and the women too. We tend to react and behave differently to things, that's life. The truth is, when we are in a relationship for example, sometimes its not just about the other person and what they did, it's also about us making wrong choices for whatever reasons.

People (both good and bad) come into your life for a reason and they also leave for a reason. I also believe that despite that, its what we take away from the situation, the lessons we learned and how we handle it, is what counts.

[Cocoa]

Okay..I donot and repeat DONOT have a problem with opening the car door, opening the door of a building for a guy or even allowing him to sit before me. Why not? I believe if he gives the same treatment he should receive the same treatment too.

This is the 21st century....woman and men are equal and alway have been. None above or beneath. So why not treat him as he would with me?

I guess I am too 'macho' in a sense..I don't know...but I like all the moochy stuff...he should receive the same treatment too.

[Arch_Angel]

To tell you the truth, I would be slightly hurt/offended if my female friend did the usual chivalry things that I would do for them.

Maybe if I was at a dis-advantage, like I have a lot of things in my hands and would have difficulty opening the door, then yeah they could open it for me.

But this is just me. I prefer to give to the lady than to recieve anything in return.

[AngelsKiss]

No I don't. Why would it be considered extreme to extend the same courtesies to men that women receive from men?

Why not? What is wrong with doing that?

So by that reasoning, women should still be treated as property, not allowed to vote, remain at home to cook, clean and raise children, and please their man since that is how it was for a loooong time and is how plenty people thought it should be... :eusa_thin

BCK..you have taken every thing I posted out of context man:)

1) If am with a man, if he is not disable, I expect him to open the door for me. It's just a nice thing to do, hence the reason why I say its' extreme. It's not that I wouldn't do it for him, it's just a case I would prefer it the other way.

2) I don't why you would even mention the issue of us women going back to pre-womens lib so am not going to dignify that with an answer:)

[BlackCryptoKnight]

1) If am with a man, if he is not disable, I expect him to open the door for me. It's just a nice thing to do, hence the reason why I say its' extreme. It's not that I wouldn't do it for him, it's just a case I would prefer it the other way.

Why would you expect it from him? Is it because he is your man, or is it because he is a man? With your loved ones, doing special things for them is a given. With strangers it's a different thing.


2) I don't why you would even mention the issue of us women going back to pre-womens lib so am not going to dignify that with an answer:)

The point I was making is that you cannot seek to justify that women should be given certain treatment because they are women and that's what they want or how it should be or how it has always been, and yet claim to be "equal" and absolved from the traditional gender roles that women have been subject to for some time. You can't seek to dump some of the stereotypes and keep only those that favour you.

If all are equal (which I believe they are) then all should be treated equally. That goes for voting, jobs, and even doing nice considerate things for each other - regardless of gender.

[AngelsKiss]

BCK..I think I need to explain a couple of things here since like I said before you have taken what I have to say out of context.

First of all many individuals both male and female have taken the issue of Women's Liberation to the extreme. Before I explain the issue of women's Liberation let me say what Chivalry is.

Chivalry came about during the period in England where they had Knights. Chivalry was about gallantry toward women, bravery, courtesy, honour, etc.

Women's Liberation

Before WL, there was women's suffragette a term deemed politically incorrect, as was WL in the 60's. Basically the reason for suffragate, WL, etc. was due to the fact that in many societies in the early centuries women were seen basically as chattels, properties to be owned, first by their father and then by their husbands.

What this meant was that women basically had no right. As children they were there to do "female work"...keep house, help their mothers. They were not even allowed to get an education. Eventually, when they reached the age to be married, their fathers would decide who they were to be married to, in many instances, it was to the highest bidder. It was all about merging of properties, etc.

After they were married, their husband became their owners. They were there for the sole purpose of pleasing their husbands, in and out of bed, bear children, among other things. They were not allowed to vote, work, or anything that may be considered a man's world. If they did not feel like having sex with their husband, they didn't have a say in the matter. Their husband could rape them and it wouldn't have mattered. In other words, women were not seen as being equal to men, but less than men.

Hence, the evolution to the idea of women's suffragette/WL.

Now to get back to the topic at hand, chivalry in this day and age, doesn't necessary have anything to do with equality, it's more about courtesy, gallantry, etc. It doesn't mean a woman can't open the door for a man, it simple means that it's a nice thing to do for a woman. Most women more so than men like that sort of thing. Its also about romance, about seeing a man as a knight in shinning armour kind of thing.

If a man doesn't feel he has to be that way, then that's ok too, but know this, there are lots of female out there who will gravitate towards a man who comes across as chivalrous. It's as simple as that!

[Greatis]

The point I was making is that you cannot seek to justify that women should be given certain treatment because they are women and that's what they want or how it should be or how it has always been, and yet claim to be "equal" and absolved from the traditional gender roles that women have been subject to for some time. You can't seek to dump some of the stereotypes and keep only those that favour you.

If all are equal (which I believe they are) then all should be treated equally. That goes for voting, jobs, and even doing nice considerate things for each other - regardless of gender.

I concur BCK it is basically a double standard in itself. :eusa_snoo

[BlackCryptoKnight]

If a man doesn't feel he has to be that way, then that's ok too, but know this, there are lots of female out there who will gravitate towards a man who comes across as chivalrous. It's as simple as that!

This is true. The chivalry tactic is employed by many a player to impress and conquer their targeted females. A smart woman will look beyond showy gestures and see the real man.

I think many women have this knight in shining armour fantasy which seriously messes up their social interactions. They keep measuring the men they meet up to these fantasy standards and set themselves up for dissappointment. Also, they often miss out on potentially good relationships just because the man didn't act according to some fantasy.

Too much of the Mills&Boon and Harlequin books nuh good... :eusa_snoo

:rolleyes:

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I concur BCK it is basically a double standard in itself. :eusa_snoo

Yes Greatis, it is a double standard.

[Drew]

I think many women have this knight in shining armour fantasy which seriously messes up their social interactions. They keep measuring the men they meet up to these fantasy standards and set themselves up for dissappointment. Also, they often miss out on potentially good relationships just because the man didn't act according to some fantasy.well said.

[Tastee]

This is true. The chivalry tactic is employed by many a player to impress and conquer their targeted females. A smart woman will look beyond showy gestures and see the real man.

I think many women have this knight in shining armour fantasy which seriously messes up their social interactions. They keep measuring the men they meet up to these fantasy standards and set themselves up for dissappointment. Also, they often miss out on potentially good relationships just because the man didn't act according to some fantasy.

Too much of the Mills&Boon and Harlequin books nuh good... :eusa_snoo

:rolleyes:

I think that what you are saying is put down to women and Im offended by it. Its not necessary to generalize women like that. I think we get degraded enough already. I changed my mind again about this site for third time im out!

[Drew]

If a man doesn't feel he has to be that way, then that's ok too, but know this, there are lots of female out there who will gravitate towards a man who comes across as chivalrous. It's as simple as that!and then you have the others who waah kill you because of these nice things. one thing i most say though, is that ladies <40 are the ones who really show the appreciation for these things. in my experience of course. they younger women >40 are the ones who make it hard for the other women.

i am generalizing. its not every woman so please don't take my statement personally.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I think that what you are saying is put down to women and Im offended by it. Its not necessary to generalize women like that. I think we get degraded enough already. I changed my mind again about this site for third time im out!

I'm sorry you feel that way Tastee. My intent was not to offend. I did not say all women were in that situation. I am basing my statements from personal observation. I have seen this happen with many women.

[AngelsKiss]

I think that what you are saying is put down to women and Im offended by it. Its not necessary to generalize women like that. I think we get degraded enough already. I changed my mind again about this site for third time im out!

Excellent point Tastee. However, I wouldnt let one or 2 opinions stop you from coming here. They are just that opinions and we are all entitle to them.

You know what is funny, I have a few very close male friends (real men too) who are secure in themselves and don't mind being chivalrous. They don't do it to impress women, they do it simply because they think it's the right thing to do and they like doing it for females. You wanna know something else? These are friends I would do just about anything for as long as it doesn't go against my moral standards. They are friends who have my love and respect, simple because they are good individuals who don't need to impress others.

I like chivalry, and if that makes me not a smart woman then so be it. In any event you wouldn't know if I am smart or dumb now would you? Just like I could say from the many of your post I have read, I don't think you have a very good opinion of women, but then that would just be my opinion, wouldn't it?

[BlackCryptoKnight]

You know what is funny, I have a few very close male friends (real men too) who are secure in themselves and don't mind being chivalrous. They don't do it to impress women, they do it simply because they think it's the right thing to do and they like doing it for females. You wanna know something else? These are friends I would do just about anything for as long as it doesn't go against my moral standards. They are friends who have my love and respect, simple because they are good individuals who don't need to impress others.

More power to them.


I like chivalry

Nothing wrong with that.

...and if that makes me not a smart woman then so be it.

I think you're taking my statement out of context now. I never said you weren't smart. I made an objective statement that a smart woman will not just gravitate to a man who appears chivalrous but will look past gestures and get to know the real man, whether he is chivalrous or not. I don't see where that statement is accusing anyone of not being smart.


In any event you wouldn't know if I am smart or dumb now would you?

I'd hazard a guess that your smart ;)


Just like I could say from the many of your post I have read, I don't think you have a very good opinion of women, but then that would just be my opinion, wouldn't it?

That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it, but you'd be wrong. ;)

[Kitten]

I think that what you are saying is put down to women and Im offended by it. Its not necessary to generalize women like that. I think we get degraded enough already. I changed my mind again about this site for third time im out!


:confused: I dont see you shutting this down Chris?

[AngelsKiss]

A guy opened the door for me and I smiled and said thank you. I haven't seen that in ages. What about the days of spreading the jacket for a woman to sit on? Does this still go on in society today? How do you feel about it? Any personal experiences?

I forgot to mention an experience I once had. I was in Half Way Tree once with a very good male friend of mine and it was pouring cats and dog. Of course you know how the street is when it rains, water up to your angles and higher in some instances.

We needed to cross the road and I was all set to walk across but my friend was having none of it, because in his opinion I would get wet. So he lift me and took me across the road. I remember a car was coming with a group of guys and girls and they slowed down and cheered for himm, because they thought what he did was wonderful. So did and I still think so to this day.

The truth is, he is just that kind of a person, he always opens the door for me. If I try to get it for myself he reminds me that when he is around he expects me to let him do stuff like that. He is this way because I know his mom raised him that way. She is also a very close friend of mine and I actually refer to her as my second mom.

[Drew]

:confused: I dont see you shutting this down Chris?
uh uh, not cool.

[AngelsKiss]

uh uh, not cool.
LOL...I wouldn't go there if I were you Drew:)

[Drew]

is it me, or are the only gentlemen the ones that are raised by women.

[Drew]

LOL...I wouldn't go there if I were you Drew:)
and i wonder why.

[Gillion]

I think many young bucks have problems dealing with and accepting their roles as MEN as opposed to wild boys. Thusly they say things like .....


This is true. The chivalry tactic is employed by many a player to impress and conquer their targeted females. A smart woman will look beyond showy gestures and see the real man.

I think many women have this knight in shining armour fantasy which seriously messes up their social interactions. They keep measuring the men they meet up to these fantasy standards and set themselves up for dissappointment. Also, they often miss out on potentially good relationships just because the man didn't act according to some fantasy.

Too much of the Mills&Boon and Harlequin books nuh good...

[Gillion]

The reality of life is that it has kicks and perks for both genders.

These kicks and perks are different for men and women and most importantly, when you add up their respective magnitudes, it all balances out.

But some men fail to see that.

If I carry a strange woman across a flooded road or help her carry her market basket a long distance, then the balance comes, 9 time out of 10, that if I am shot and bleeding on the side of the road, it is a strange woman that will stop to help me.

I am asthmatic... and when I took ill a few times on the bus, it is women who give me a seats or let me lean on them.

Balance.

Right now I am hungry... and I can go to any of my female friends homes, even the married ones and have a kings meal placed infront of me.

Your damn stright I will open doors and give her the shirt off my back if its cold.

Balance

If a woman complains that she can do things for herself and as such she don't want you opening doors for her... fine. Her problem or not.

She might be the same woman that needs your help to change her car tire. And if not then fine. Her problem or not.

I am sure there is some man saying he won't help a woman just because she is a woman, she has to ask first.

I wonder if this same man wants his girl/wife to wash and cook for him because she is a woman ? Or will he do it ... ?

Balance.

--True selfless kindness is always rewarded.
Gillion

[AngelsKiss]

The reality of life is that it has kicks and perks for both genders.

These kicks and perks are different for men and women and most importantly, when you add up their respective magnitudes, it all balances out.

But some men fail to see that.

If I carry a strange woman across a flooded road or help her carry her market basket a long distance, then the balance comes, 9 time out of 10, that if I am shot and bleeding on the side of the road, it is a strange woman that will stop to help me.

I am asthmatic... and when I took ill a few times on the bus, it is women who give me a seats or let me lean on them.

Balance.

Right now I am hungry... and I can go to any of my female friends homes, even the married ones and have a kings meal placed infront of me.

Your damn stright I will open doors and give her the shirt off my back if its cold.

Balance

If a woman complains that she can do things for herself and as such she don't want you opening doors for her... fine. Her problem or not.

She might be the same woman that needs your help to change her car tire. And if not then fine. Her problem or not.

I am sure there is some man saying he won't help a woman just because she is a woman, she has to ask first.

I wonder if this same man wants his girl/wife to wash and cook for him because she is a woman ? Or will he do it ... ?

Balance.

--True selfless kindness is always rewarded.
Gillion


Now here is a man who knows what he is about and know what it is to be a man in my opinion. Gillion you have my respect!!!

[Cocoa]

Gillon, I love your words. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

[AngelsKiss]

JCB...you will be happy to hear that chivalry was alive today:) I had to move a pc and as I was taking it back to my office, a very nice young man at offered to take it for me ;)

Oh I forgot to mention that he is cute too...unfortunately too young ;)


Ok you know I just had to put that part in just for ya :icon_mrgr

[Xenocrates]

A young man? I don't think that was chivalry AK. ;) But ok, I'll work with that. :icon_mrgr

[AngelsKiss]

A young man? I don't think that was chivalry AK. ;) But ok, I'll work with that. :icon_mrgr

LOL...Xeno...I don't know what going thru that mind of yours but it was plain old chivalry nothing else:)

[Xenocrates]

Naw I agree with you! make no mistake... but like you, I have a very vivid imagination.

However, I'm sure it was chivalry. You bet your arse it was! ;) :icon_mrgr

Score 1 for the good guys! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/Xenocrates/Smilies/thumbup.gif

[Drew]

lol, which team u on xeno?? :icon_mrgr

[AngelsKiss]

lol, which team u on xeno?? :icon_mrgr
Don't even go there Drew ;)

[Xenocrates]

Now that is a good question. :icon_mrgr *xeno starts reading page 1 of the thread...*

[AngelsKiss]

Now that is a good question. :icon_mrgr *xeno starts reading page 1 of the thread...*
Lol...Darn...now we can expect a 20 page report on the pros and cons of chivalry :p

[Drew]

lol, xeno u couldn't begin to convince me that ur anything but a good guy.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Here's an interesting article on the Code of Chivalry.
http://www.stark.kent.edu/~jmoneysmith/gbi/ourweb/heckman.htm

[Bahama Mama]

A guy opened the door for me and I smiled and said thank you. I haven't seen that in ages. What about the days of spreading the jacket for a woman to sit on? Does this still go on in society today? How do you feel about it? Any personal experiences?



*Snatched from the claws of antiquity*

What many would consider as being chivalrous, I consider as merely being courteous. I have personally held doors open for many a man and woman without thinking about it. I have always thought it rude to let a door swing back in the face of the person behind me, irregardless of their gender. I see chivalry as nothing more than glorified politeness or courtesy. I dont expect chivalry really, I expect courtesy. But if I get chivalry as per the modern interpretation I appreciate it nonetheless.

The modern interpretation of chivalry (men being especially courteous to women) I think is not dead, however I think it is on life support. The persistent battle of the sexes, feminism, playerism, and the never ending cry for equality has made a bigger issue out of chivalry than it needs to be. The genders have gotten so finnicky about their roles and how they should treat one another.

As well it seems that not many people want to be courteous just for being courteous sake anymore. There must be some alterior motive that has persons (women in particular) indifferent to the idea of chivalry.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I have personally held doors open for many a man and woman without thinking about it. I have always thought it rude to let a door swing back in the face of the person behind me, irregardless of their gender.
Quite so! :eusa_clap

I dont expect chivalry really, I expect courtesy. But if I get chivalry as per the modern interpretation I appreciate it nonetheless.
:eusa_clap

The modern interpretation of chivalry (men being especially courteous to women) I think is not dead, however I think it is on life support. The persistent battle of the sexes, feminism, playerism, and the never ending cry for equality has made a bigger issue out of chivalry than it needs to be. The genders have gotten so finnicky about their roles and how they should treat one another.
True words again. ;)

As well it seems that not many people want to be courteous just for being courteous sake anymore.
That seems to be the case. Curtesy is not en vogue. Meanspiritedness and angst seem to be the "in things" these days.

[Purple Queen]

What many would consider as being chivalrous, I consider as merely being courteous. I have personally held doors open for many a man and woman without thinking about it. I have always thought it rude to let a door swing back in the face of the person behind me, irregardless of their gender. I see chivalry as nothing more than glorified politeness or courtesy. I dont expect chivalry really, I expect courtesy. But if I get chivalry as per the modern interpretation I appreciate it nonetheless.


:eusa_clap I totally agree,BM. If you were brought up to show courtesy, you will automatically be courteous no matter who the recipient is. It's something you do without expecting something in return. To add,we should all do unto others as we would like done to us. Went to Barbados recently,and simple courtesies are not dished out as most of us Jamaicans would.Case:
The airport taxi arrives at the hotel and the driver told us (Jamaicans,Trinidadians,Arubans,Bahamians)to lift our luggages into the taxi! We were so appalled...it left us speechless for a good 20 minutes.

[Twinkie]

Welcome back Purple Queen