Does religion belong only at home and at church?

[BlackCryptoKnight]

In another thread, the following statement was made by BMGrip:

I think religion belongs in church and not in the work place. Its hard for people to understand that. And I think women have a big problem understanding this and take this way to personal. If you want to pray and have icon do it in your home. Its a work place and thats why your there. Its not about freedom of speech, its about company policy that you clearly agree to when you take the postion.

It looks like it could make for an interesting discussion.

Does religion belong only at home or at church? Should religion play a part in every aspect of our life? What do you think about the growing trend in North America of discouraging public religious expression in schools etc.?

:eusa_thin

[Xenocrates]

That's why american kids are shooting the crap out of each other.

Religion belongs in everyday life. However, Christ encouraged his followers to be modest about it. Showing it off in the open is never something Christ favoured. He asked his followers to lock themselves in a closet, and not expose themselves as the pharisees do. So long as you don't go imposing yourself on others unnecessarily (hence defeating the very purpose of your lifestyle) it's all good.

If everyone in your office is a christian, well I guess things can be different.

[Tastee]

I dont believe that American kids are the only ones that are being violent these days. Thats a overstated sterotype and a prejudice statement. People really dont use basic knowledge when they make statements like this.

Religion has its place and people have to abide by laws just like in everything else.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

That's why american kids are shooting the crap out of each other.

Good point. I recall a while back when I was returning home from a trip to the US, I was seated besided an American couple. They said that they loved Jamaica and one of the things that impressed them most was the fact that no matter how humble the dwellings were, the children were always neat in their school uniforms and had manners. They contrasted that with the US children who in their "grunge" and other fashions, appear unkempt, and unruly. They also said that they loved and respected the fact that in Jamaica, children were allowed to pray publicly whereas in the US, it has been made an offence to pray publicly in the school. They saw the correlation between driving God out of their schools and the behaviour of their children deteriorating.

I agree that religion belongs in every aspect of our lives, and also that we are not to force our beliefs upon anyone. I don't think a company should attempt to dictate to people that they cannot express themselves religiously at all in the company. I do believe however, that certain forms of religious expression may not be appropriate for the work environment. Changing the wallpaper or screensaver of the work computers for any reason (even family photos) is something I can understand company's being opposed to. But nobody can stop you from praying or telling people about your beliefs.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I dont believe that American kids are the only ones that are being violent these days.
True, violence is everywhere.


Thats a overstated sterotype and a prejudice statement. People really dont use basic knowledge when they make statements like this.
Not necessarily so. I don't know of any other place not involved in some form of civil war where metal detectors are warranted for children's schools, or where children have such easy access to guns. Not to mention the incidents of children committing mass murder in schools - Columbine etc.


Religion has its place and people have to abide by laws just like in everything else.

One has to decide whose laws take precedence - God's law or the law of men. If the law of men conflicts with God's law, then God's law takes precedent.

[AngelsKiss]

God's law should take precedence, but that can only happen in a perfect world when Christ returns. When we infuse religion with law and government we have ppl telling us who we can worship and when we can worship. I don't need to tell you how dangerous that is.

[Xenocrates]

Good point AK. Another question:

Should Christians enter politics?

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Good point AK. Another question:

Should Christians enter politics?

Interesting question. In Biblical times, how were the Jewish leaders selected? Didn't the leaders have both religious and political responsibilities? Did the religious beliefs of the Kings etc. influence their rule? Didn't God place leaders in power?

I would hope that Christianity would provide the foundation for people to become good leaders. As such, if real devoted Christians were in politics, I would hope that the nation would be better off for it. I guess as it is now (in Jamaica) it would be difficult (but not impossible) for a true devoted Christian to enter politics and remain clean. With God anything is possible. The other question is whether Christian politicians would seek to impose their beliefs on the population. I know many would not want that. But then, non-Christian leaders impose their beliefs on populations anyway. So it's not like it would be anything new.

[AngelsKiss]

I am not sure the issue is whether Christians should enter politics...it's more about how they use their Christianity.

I don't think there is a problem with any religion being in politics, it's when they attempt to force their belives on others we have a problem.

[Tastee]

Again you come with partial truths, this is not occuring in all the school systems. Maybe metal detectors are needed more in inner city schools. Because the crime in some inner schools has to be deterred by those means. I think your views are biased and really they have less merit because its basically heresay. Religion has its place and because there are so many denominations this has to be kept at a minimum in the workplace as to not cause conflict between employees. I dont think I want people running around preaching all day about there religions. I go to church and I believe in God, but i also dont intrude it on other people. Were I work I know that some people are Muslims or Catholics or Baptist and Jehovah Witness. If all these people start preaching in the work place about their religions what would be happening. Some people have big problem with Muslims and Jehovah Witness. And maybe all religions, it needs to remain on your own time. We dont have a big problem at my job you can have cross on your desk or religious quotations. But they dont like for people to discuss these things to loudly and disrespect others who may or may not believe. I think thats why they do that in the work place.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Religion has its place and because there are so many denominations this has to be kept at a minimum in the workplace as to not cause conflict between employees. I dont think I want people running around preaching all day about there religions.
I understand the need to avoid conflict in the workplace and I do agree that imposing your beliefs on others is not the best thing to do, but I doubt that in the absence of policies restriciting religious expression that you would end up with a situation where everyone is trying to preach their religion to others.
If I want to pray at my desk, it doesn't have to bother anyone. If I hold a conversation with a coworker about some aspect of my faith it does not have to be intrusive or disruptive.


But they dont like for people to discuss these things to loudly and disrespect others who may or may not believe. I think thats why they do that in the work place.

Discussing religion doesn't have to be disrespectful. It's all about how you carry across your points. People definitely have to be sensitive to the feelings of others.

[Tastee]

I think you are to quick to jump about something. and read what I wrote carefully. I alread sated those facts. God is the only who knows everything and man unfortunately doesnt have all the answers and definetly doesnt know everything.

[AngelsKiss]

I understand the need to avoid conflict in the workplace and I do agree that imposing your beliefs on others is not the best thing to do, but I doubt that in the absence of policies restriciting religious expression that you would end up with a situation where everyone is trying to preach their religion to others.
If I want to pray at my desk, it doesn't have to bother anyone. If I hold a conversation with a coworker about some aspect of my faith it does not have to be intrusive or disruptive.

Discussing religion doesn't have to be disrespectful. It's all about how you carry across your points. People definitely have to be sensitive to the feelings of others.

BCK...that's an idealistic approach...the reality is that ppl don't always behave rationally, especially now a days. For example since 9/11, many individuals have become more aggressive towards Arabs. Many see Arabs as terrorist and they are not capable of thinking that there are bad ppl all over the world.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

BCK...that's an idealistic approach...the reality is that ppl don't always behave rationally, especially now a days. For example since 9/11, many individuals have become more aggressive towards Arabs. Many see Arabs as terrorist and they are not capable of thinking that there are bad ppl all over the world.

How would those policies help that situation? The Arabs would still be Arabs even if they were not practicing Muslims. So people may still be hostile toward them even with such policies.

It's unfortunate that people can't just get along in this world without the strife
:(

[Xenocrates]

Again you come with partial truths, this is not occuring in all the school systems. ......I think your views are biased and really they have less merit because its basically heresay....

- You mean the Killings @ Columbine High in Colorado a few years ago and the multiplicity of copy cat shootings that followed were all heresay?

PHEW! That was a relief. Cuz that would have very bad, m'kay? It's amazing how these news networks can make up such realistic-looking stories. It must be a conspiracy of some kind. Boy I can tell you, the acting was AWESOME though! I saw small kids crying, with blood, guts and arse spattered all over the place and everything. Now I'm no actor, but lemme tell you... those kids were GOOD! That looked mighty real to me! Goes to show you can't believe everything you see on TV.

Oh well...

[ramesh]

Unfortunately the assumption here is that there is only one belief that can be called religion. While I do not want to go into the "which religion is the only true religion" discussion, a person is entitled to their own belief, whether Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever.

Many countries have a multitude of persons with differring beliefs and to avoid forcing a Muslim to say the Lord's Prayer, it has been removed from being compulsory from American schools. Some schools have taken it a step further and removed all trace of Christian teaching from school. I find this to be unnecessary as Christian or any other Religious teaching can be made optional.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Unfortunately the assumption here is that there is only one belief that can be called religion. While I do not want to go into the "which religion is the only true religion" discussion, a person is entitled to their own belief, whether Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever.
Indeed, everyone is entitiled to make their own decision as to which religion they follow.


Some schools have taken it a step further and removed all trace of Christian teaching from school. I find this to be unnecessary as Christian or any other Religious teaching can be made optional.

Agreed. It doesn't have to be compulsory.

[Xenocrates]

And that's the way it should be. Even then, there are moral obligations to one another that can be abstracted from the faith. The faith in its entirety doesn't have to be shoved down their throats. It is these moral obligations however that would teach young impressionable minds caught up with demonic death metal, violent sci-fi movies about virtual reality worlds, and violent video games, to gain a modicum of respect for the lives of their peers, irrespective of how tormented they feel inside...

...for everytime you remove religion from man he destroys himself. History proves that time and time again. The crusaders' campaign wasn't religion in motion. That was politics. So nobody even dare mention that. ;)

[AngelsKiss]

...for everytime you remove religion from man he destroys himself. History proves that time and time again. The crusaders' campaign wasn't religion in motion. That was politics. So nobody even dare mention that. ;)
Tell that to Prince Edwards when he was fighting the Saracens who were supposely heathens. As far as the British were concerned, it was their duty to save the Holy Land from the Saracens:)

[Xenocrates]

Look, the Americans came out of the English and the Americans are supposedly trying to "free" Iraq in the name of everything from WMDs to dictatorship to terrorism. (Now it seems like it is the American troops that need freeing from their president.) The list just keeps getting longer.

The British were merely an early version of the Americans. They were conquering territories under many causes likewise. Religion was just their favourite excuse. It's all politics either way. ;)

[ramesh]

I agree with Xeno. Religion has been a tool/excuse of Governments for Centuries. There is proof of this even in the Bible. Which is why the call for seperation of Church and State will only seem to have success.

All of this is, however, predicted in the Bible. Xeno can give you the lowdown if he has the time. ;)

[AngelsKiss]

I agree with Xeno. Religion has been a tool/excuse of Governments for Centuries. There is proof of this even in the Bible. Which is why the call for seperation of Church and State will only seem to have success.

All of this is, however, predicted in the Bible. Xeno can give you the lowdown if he has the time. ;)
LMBO...Xeno needs no encouragement Ramesh..when the spirit moves him, he will lecture, preach and goodness knows what else ;)

[Xenocrates]

I think I'm going to preach up in here church!

...somebody say "yeah!" :icon_mrgr

[ramesh]

Yeah! Hallelujah and Amen!! :)

Stand back, everyone! Sermon soon start! I think Xeno may have some quotes from Revelation and Daniel! And there will be a test. ;)

[Cocoa]

BMGrip addressed me with his response as the quote in the beggining of the thread. The situation is at my job that have BANNED us from having any form of religious materials including, Bible, crosses, any scripture hung up in OUR OWN cubicle and even the mention of 'JESUS or GOD" or discussing with a FRIEND about HIM is NOT ALLOWED. This got me upset. I can understand how throwing down the Word of God down someone's throat can be offensive and we should be careful how we speak cause someone might get offended, which apparently happened.
But not even having it at our desk??? That is treason.
They have stopped it totally. So the light that I have after GOd has been so good to me, I can't even say nothing about the Goodness of God!? Chrrps...

I donot believe that you should leave your religion at home and be all silent and 'unchristian' at work. It should go where ever you go. With all due respect to regulations and such...but some of the rules they have is uncalled for.

[Xenocrates]

err... some americans are all caught up in being politically correct, and feel offended if you have religious paraphenilia about your workstation...

...ofcourse 'offended' here means "convicted". Never before has a country turned its back on God like America. Only the elect living there have thus far saved it from becoming fallout dust I think - through prayer and supplication. As to how a nation can survive without God is beyond me. The thought is incomprehensible. Especially in this day and age with THAT kind of man for president.

[Cocoa]

err... some americans are all caught up in being politically correct, and feel offended if you have religious paraphenilia about your workstation...

...ofcourse 'offended' here means "convicted". Never before has a country turned its back on God like America. Only the elect living there have thus far saved it from becoming fallout dust I think - through prayer and supplication. As to how a nation can survive without God is beyond me. The thought is incomprehensible. Especially in this day and age with THAT kind of man for president.
Straight Xeno...I wonder the same thing too.
Wanting to take a simple yet powerful word as 'GOD' out of the National Pledge...prayer out of schools, Bibles among other things. But what I see is that they can curse freely, dress and carry on anyway with out saying anything about the 'offence'. And do all other sorts of things 'freely' but NO NO...not when it comes to GOD.

American money says though.."in God we trust" LIE!!! Must be the god of the Greens.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

JCB, it's just Bible prophecy being fulfilled.

Amos 8 KJV
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

The time is fast approaching when you won't even be able to hear about God, and you would have to rely on what you have already learned. So take advantage of the time now to learn and read about Him.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

God mandated His people to spread His word to others

Matthew 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

We don't have to do this by forcing our beliefs on others or preaching at them, but by living our lives such that it becomes an example for others. Sometimes that's the most powerful way to witness.

Thankfully, no one can stop you from praying silently to God in your heart, or from witnessing with your life.

[Xenocrates]

That's true BCK. In another scripture it teaches that the word of God on earth will become so corrupt, that he will have to send an angel to minister to the people.

It's all a part of the scheme of things that lead right up to the second coming. Revelation teaches us in many places that the Prince of the Air (Satan) will gain complete control over the planet for a little while. It's already starting to happen. Prophecies are being fulfilled at wicked speed these days. One would have to be really dumb to not have Eternal Life Insurance put away. U zimi?

[Kitten]

QUOTE=Tastee]I think you are to quick to jump about something. and read what I wrote carefully. I alread sated those facts. God is the only who knows everything and man unfortunately doesnt have all the answers and definetly doesnt know everything.[/QUOTE]

I like your answer Tastee it was and objective point of view. I think that Diplomacy is what America tries to convey to people. Because within one nation you have many nations and cultures. I havent really read all that was written here, because from the first I seen part of the dialogue and it was an infusion of bombardment against a nation. One nation to be exact, out of ineptness. There are so many countries who at this time are fighting every day because of their religions. And it is an ongoing situation for the people to live with unrest in their daily lives. I dont think it happens in the nation that was pointed out to be dysfunctional. If you are going to point at the unjustness of religion. Then give a complete and overall view of the subject matter which is the practice of religion. The partiality that Tastee was discussing, would be from the onsided view of this particular nation. But it could be because of inadequate social awareness. I cant say, but I do know that people are free to believe what they choose in the United States and attend any organization, Church or Temple. Now how can the government control all these people of different faiths and religions without being biased to one faith. If the government controls the lives of people and tells them what faith they should be in then it is no longer a free society. It would border on the lines of communism. And so far I dont think that is happening,were they are telling people what to believe in. I think that people who are always saying that other people are evil and this and that are hypocrites. They are the ones who need to pick up those bibles that they sling around and read it.

Read the words that are in it and not just add things too it. If you are a christian then you know that you have to abide by laws. If you dont feel you need to abide by governed laws or live in a certain society. Then you have options, that you can utilize and live in your own little society in your own little world. But again wouldnt that be deviating from your bible principles. I think that the laws are governed for society to be able to live diplomatically and thats the way it is. So for chrisitian people, I guess keep praying for Jesus to come so you wont have to live in this terrible world any longer.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Daniel 6 makes for mighty interesting reading. ;)

[ramesh]

And then Daniel 7 makes much more interesting reading! ;)

[Kitten]

Why stop there! Read from the begining of Genesis ch.1 and to the end Revelation ch. 22. IT'S ALL GOOD!! (It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Luke 14:35.

[ramesh]

Why am I suddenly remembering a song that went like this:

"Everyday mi turn the Bible pages,
From Revelations forward to Genesis....."

Mind Jah lik you wid deseases!

;)

[AngelsKiss]

Why am I suddenly remembering a song that went like this:

"Everyday mi turn the Bible pages,
From Revelations forward to Genesis....."

Mind Jah lik you wid deseases!

;)

LMBO @ Ramesh...sing it Ramesh :)

[ramesh]

LMBO @ Ramesh...sing it Ramesh :) Heh heh, I think I have the words wrong anyway ;)

[BMGrip]

Do you remember "Miracle" by the Viceroys that had some good lyrics. How did it go. I need to call my Mom and see if she remember that tune.

[ramesh]

Do you remember "Miracle" by the Viceroys that had some good lyrics. How did it go. I need to call my Mom and see if she remember that tune.
The Viceroys - Miracle

(author Gregory Isaacs, maybe)

Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego
They throw them in the fire
and they never get burned as we know
Shadrach was a dreadlock,
Meshach was a dreadlock, also Abednego
Lord oh where did they go, nobody knows.
Rastaman invisible, invisible yeah,
some kind of miracle , oh no no
Rastaman invisible invulnerable,
some kind of miracle.

Daniel was thrown in the lions den,
but one thing they never know
the lion was Daniels friend,
he was his friend, Daniels friend,
rastaman invisible,invisible yeah,
some call it miracle, if you know what I mean.
Rastamn invisible, invulnerable
some kind of miracle

Daniel was thrown in the lions den,
but one thing they never know
the lion was Daniels friend,
he was his friend, Daniels friend.
Rastaman invisible, invisible yeah,
some call it miracle, oh yea yea
Rastaman invisible, invulnerable,
some call it miracle if you know what I mean.
Rastaman invisible, invulnerable,
some call it miracle rastaman invisible, invisible yeah
Some call it miracle, miracle, miracle.
Rastaman invisible, invulnerable,
some call it miracle if you know what I mean
Rastaman invisble, invisible yeah, some call it miracle

[BMGrip]

Yes thats it! Daniel thrown in the lions Den!! You found it good tune dat. Thanks. ;)

[ActorRod]

Religion is an institute that can begin in the home when the parents take their kids to the church of their choice.

Spirituality is in the heart.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I think that there has to be a fair balance in the workplace. Sure everybody isn't going to be comfortable all the time, but things can be worked out so that people have the right to express themselves religiously without negatively impacting on the work they need to do, or on anyone elses rights. I think preventing people from mentioning the name of God or discussing religion with willing co-workers is extreme. Are they doing the same for profanity, politics or entertainment? All these can offend people too.

[ramesh]

Agreed. If it goes on like that, life as we know it may be similar to the world in the books "1984" and "Equilibrium", where thought and action must be only that prescribed by a few and any divergence met by subtle force.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Agreed. If it goes on like that, life as we know it may be similar to the world in the books "1984" and "Equilibrium", where thought and action must be only that prescribed by a few and any divergence met by subtle force.

I guess I'd better start my Gun-Kata training to deal with those pesky Grammaton Clerics then...
:cool:

[AngelsKiss]

I believe in freedom to do whatever you choose as long as you don't infringe on other ppl's rights.

[Cocoa]

I think that there has to be a fair balance in the workplace. Sure everybody isn't going to be comfortable all the time, but things can be worked out so that people have the right to express themselves religiously without negatively impacting on the work they need to do, or on anyone elses rights. I think preventing people from mentioning the name of God or discussing religion with willing co-workers is extreme. Are they doing the same for profanity, politics or entertainment? All these can offend people too.And that is my point here in the matter at hand at work. They gonna fire me cause I stand up for my rights. But I would rather be jobless and have a clean conscience than remain quiet and become restless knowing I didn't stood up for what I believed in.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Is it legal for them to attempt to restrict your freedom of speech like that?

[Tastee]

And that is my point here in the matter at hand at work. They gonna fire me cause I stand up for my rights. But I would rather be jobless and have a clean conscience than remain quiet and become restless knowing I didn't stood up for what I believed in.


I would think that would be an ignorant thing to do.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I would think that would be an ignorant thing to do.
What are you referring to? The company firing her or her standing up for her beliefs?

[Tastee]

It is important for people to educate themselves rather than dissociate from the environment. Look for a resolve to the matter, but of course it would take that person being more intuitive about seeking a resolution. I think that they would then need to seek the knowledge of their bible so that they may be able to conform to certain standards without abandonment.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

It is important for people to educate themselves rather than dissociate from the environment. Look for a resolve to the matter, but of course it would take that person being more intuitive about seeking a resolution. I think that they would then need to seek the knowledge of their bible so that they may be able to conform to certain standards without abandonment.

You haven't answered my question.

Is the company ignorant for firing someone over their beliefs, or is the person ignorant because they stand up for their beliefs?

[Tastee]

In another thread, the following statement was made by BMGrip:



It looks like it could make for an interesting discussion.

Does religion belong only at home or at church? Should religion play a part in every aspect of our life? What do you think about the growing trend in North America of discouraging public religious expression in schools etc.?

:eusa_thin
My english wasnt simple enough apparently, the person would be ignorant in my thinking. Like I just stated in my reply.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

My english wasnt simple enough apparently, the person would be ignorant in my thinking. Like I just stated in my reply.

So by your brilliant logic (which escapes us mere simpletons), a person who stands up for their beliefs, which in this case is the right to speak the name of God who created them and the very people who oppose His name being spoken, is ignorant.

If that were the case my friend, our ancestors who fought for freedom from slavery in the face of death would be ignorant. Anyone who stands up for what they believe in despite threats to curtail their freedom of speech and expression, would be ignorant.

If that really is the case, then I'd happily be "ignorant" and speak of God than be "smart" and please people.

[Tastee]

I dont know what your talking about, I was addressing the issue of her leaving her job over something trivial and simple as obtaining some type of resolve to the issue. Without having to leave her employment and be without a job. To maybe try and find a way to work in the environment and seek her bible for knowledge. I believe thats what I said.

Unless you work for yourself, you are going to have to work under certain conditions. So it makes the situation better if you try and comply with rules unless the are violating you in some way. But as a christian person I dont think causing a disturbance is the answer to the situation. Trying to find and answer would be better for me, if I were in the situation. But I probably wouldnt be because I have a positive attitude and I dont think I need to fight over such trivial matters and I can still pray to God all day long.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Fair enough. I agree we need to pick our battles carefully.

On principle though, the situation outlined by JCB is not as simple or as trivial as it may appear to some. As a Christian, it is quite clear that we should not just be hiding and praying and keeping God to ourselves, but that we should be sharing His word with others. This doesn't mean cramming gospel down anyones throat. But it really is messed up if people seek to prevent you from talking about matters with others who consent to converse with you. That is extreme.

[ramesh]

Perhaps JCB should have a meeting with her superior with an attempt to come to some compromise. If her expressions of religion do not infringe on her clients (if any) or her co-workers, there should not be a problem that I can see.

[Cocoa]

Alot of christians were also preturbed and disturbed with the information...so after numerous comments and complaints and taking matter to the Director, the issue was clarified and now they said you can read the Bible and so on your break or lunch as usual but don't discuss politics or religion openly. I have no problem with that.

If we had stayed quick and remain oppressed, I wouldn't have it. I am a believer in adhering to rules, but not when it was to the extremes. So no matter what, I will stand up for what I believe in.

Look at Nanny, Harriet Tubman, Malcolm X and so much more, who stood up for what they believed it.