Ladies Would You Propose

[BlackCryptoKnight]

I dunno what trance Xeno deh in, but if a man feels his masculinity is threatened by a woman asking a question, then one has to question that man's perception of masculinity, and ultimately, his own masculinity.

I would see a woman proposing as something that would boost the male ego and re-affirm his masculinity. She wants him so much, that she's willing to put her feelings out there for him to accept or reject. She's putting the future of the relationship in your hands at that moment. You are the one in control. Why not look at it like that?

Anywho, it's neither here nor there. Men and women are equal partners. So if she asks first, no big deal. As Izemi had said earlier, by that time, you both supposed to know how things are gonna go anyways, and the proposal is just a formality.

[Xenocrates]

Jian Izemi

I hear what you're saying, but that's just not a risk I'm going to tender, and I'll tell you why:

No matter how many times I think about it, it seems to me like a woman pre-emptively assuming a man's position in the relationship. God designated the man the leader of a marriage unit. What does a leader do? Lead! So why must we now rationalize a woman taking up that role? The more we mess with nature's laws, the more unnecessarily complicated the relationship becomes. Because now we have a man being the female in the relationship, and the female being the male. It is because that woman is going to start thinking at some point:

"If I can propose to him and win his approval for marriage, what more can I do?"

It's the beginning to a slow but effective process of emasculation - and no man likes being emasculated. I don't care how rational you think you are - every man is ego driven - if not, you're probably gay. Every man in this position will realise this later on in marriage that he has given up his birthright. If ofcourse you're a man (not reffering to you specifically, Izemi) who is comfortable with a woman making up your mind for you, then go ahead and knock yourselves out. Just make sure that you prepare yourself for a marriage where the woman will feel obliged to demand more than you are willing surrender - on a very regular basis. If she got away with a marriage proposal, she will be tempted to get away with many other things.

BM

Traumatized is a nice way of saying it.

[Izemi-Clem]

Hail

Sniff, Sniff, Sniff!!!!!!

Is this fear I'm smelling???
Or worse !!! Is it insecurity?????

Is is that the one, true Jian; Xenocrates is fearful of being in a partnership with a woman who is not only aggressive but forthright????

Say it ain't so

Xeno was it that your decisions were based on the fact that long terms partnerships with these women were not practical options on quantifiable reasons?
Rather than the fear of being beaten and dominated by adept mind game players.

Surely a man of your esteemed astuteness cannot fall victim nor be out-played and out-maneuvered by such women like mere mortals.

Surely your game is much higher than that.
I would have figured that if such a woman had that in mind, it would have been out of her head before she sat in your lap.

Tell I "Di Real Deal" berdrin.

Izemi-Clem

[Xenocrates]

I would see a woman proposing as something that would boost the male ego and re-affirm his masculinity.

- Anyone who sees it that way, is the type of person who relies on other people to make them feel good about themselves. That should never be the case. Strength should come from within, not without. Otherwise, such a person's well being is subject to the will of others. Such a person is easy to control and manipulate. With a mind like that, one is more likely to be more of a victim than a victor.

A woman who knows she can willfully make a man feel that way knows that she has control over him. You don't want your woman to know that she can control you. Women aren't drawn to men they can control. You'd be surprised at how fast she looses interest.

Disclaimer: Ofcourse, I'm not personalising this towards you, since I don't know enough about you to make such a claim.

She wants him so much, that she's willing to put her feelings out there for him to accept or reject. She's putting the future of the relationship in your hands at that moment. You are the one in control. Why not look at it like that?

- Because it is impractical. You don't need to be reminded by some woman that you are in control. You were designed to be that way, so therefore you should sieze your predesignate! You should be fully aware of your control without any external influence. Any man who needs a woman to make him feel like he is in control is nothing more than a puppet.

Furthermore, have you considered what would happen if you were to say "no"?

1. She would be crushed (obviously)
2. She would figure you to be fearful of committment
3. She would become insecure about you around other women
4. She will dog you about it in disagreements
5. God forbid, she might even start looking elsewhere...

Why should we complicate things unnecessarily?

[BlackCryptoKnight]

- Anyone who sees it that way, is the type of person who relies on other people to make them feel good about themselves. That should never be the case. Strength should come from within, not without. Otherwise, such a person's well being is subject to the will of others. Such a person is easy to control and manipulate. With a mind like that, one is more likely to be more of a victim than a victor.

You realise that this is applicable to your approach as well right?

A woman who knows she can willfully make a man feel that way knows that she has control over him. You don't want your woman to know that she can control you. Women aren't drawn to men they can control. You'd be surprised at how fast she looses interest.

Dude, you worry too much about control. It's not even about control. If you are insecure about control and power in a relationship, then you will have problems regardless of who proposes. You will have problems if she earns more, or if she is more popular, or if she is more educated etc. etc. etc. That's no way to live bro.

Disclaimer: Ofcourse, I'm not personalising this towards you, since I don't know enough about you to make such a claim.

No worries.

- Because it is impractical. You don't need to be reminded by some woman that you are in control. You were designed to be that way, so therefore you should sieze your predesignate! You should be fully aware of your control without any external influence. Any man who needs a woman to make him feel like he is in control is nothing more than a puppet.

But Xdude, doesn't a woman allowing you to take the initiative (because she could take it, if she wanted to) make you feel like you are in control too? Do you see what I'm getting at? There's control, and there's perception of control. A person can passively be in control, while allowing the perception that another is in control. That's how you play and win at chess. Force your opponent to decide to make the moves that will make them lose, all of their own free will.

But again I say, if you approach relationships with this control/power struggle mindset, you will be doomed to struggle with such things and not be happy.

Furthermore, have you considered what would happen if you were to say "no"?

1. She would be crushed (obviously)
2. She would figure you to be fearful of committment
3. She would become insecure about you around other women
4. She will dog you about it in disagreements
5. God forbid, she might even start looking elsewhere...

Why should we complicate things unnecessarily?

You mean all the things that could happen if a man proposes and is turned down? So what? The reaction depends upon the personalities involved and the nature/strength of the relationship. The circumstances surrounding the decisions made play a big part as well. It is quite plausible for the woman's proposal to be turned down because the time is just not right, and the man can communicate that effectively so that there are no ill feelings, and the relationship is not compromised.

I think that much of your apprehension can be cured provided that you are sufficiently comfortable and knowledgeable about your partner. If you both really love each other with that true, selfless love, then trust me Xeno, all these worries you have will be quite trivial. Trust me.

[Xenocrates]

Is is that the one, true Jian; Xenocrates is fearful of being in a partnership with a woman who is not only aggressive but forthright????

- LOL Are you kidding me? The only types of women I go after are the really bright, really aggressive, really difficult ones! (especially as witty conversationalists). In fact, whenever I describe my tastes in women to some girls, they actually think I'm being condescending! (Can you believe it?! )

In fact, one dude from TechJamaica actually asked me (I kid you not):

"Those girls you talk to are so difficult. Why not go after the girls who are easier to get?"

My response:

"That's exactly why. It's because they're easier to get."

I get bored easily Master Clem. I need a woman who can keep up with me and keep me entertained. The trick is to find one humble enough to not want to be a man herself!

But hold up, Izemi. You're feisty y'know! You should know me better than that! You know I LOVE a challenge! How could you say such a thing? Yu nuh gi big man nuh ratings... eediat ting dat

Sniff, sniff... I feel insulted.

(gosh this is fun)

[Izemi-Clem]

Hail

Jain Xeno

I can well overstand what you're saying king.
All too well.
The examples are many.
Marriage is a constant and dynamic test of wills on every level.

I demand that my empress be self-confident and astute, it is my job to manage the politics of the relationship and assert myself.

I man-tain that if we argue, it should be over something substantial.
A king should not have to lead by attrition, my submission is to our union which means my commitment to our union should be un-questioned, her submission should be based on the fact that I have substantiated her ras-pect for I.
In other words, our relationship should be self-nurturing and each ras-pecting the others role nd function.

My father has always told me:

A man should hire the gardener and the woman hire the maid; that way there is no conflict of interest.

With all the problems that can arise, there are some things which when really considered take nothing away from a man to concede but you will find it raises his stature even higher.

To lead by will, and not by force is the mark of a true patriarch.

A woman will always seek to dominate her man, it is their function (I believe), it is a man's function to realize that he cannot take his union for granted.

And you're right, today the image of the so-called perfect husband is a joke; a man that just shuts up and smiles.
Most have no idea of what a true husband's role is, and they are too busy chasing skirts or whatever else to realize what is happening at home.
Some pay no attention at all and the woman has to step in and takes over before they realize what is happening.

Any breakdown of the family, ultimately is the man's responsibility

Izemi-Clem

[Gillion]

I done honest bout it already ... my ego can't tek it... so mi naw go form fool and then allow her to "fuss mi" and propose.

Before that man I walk backway for a week.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

And you're right, today the image of the so-called perfect husband is a joke; a man that just shuts up and smiles.

I must have missed that memo.

[nester-san]

If he met a woman whose head games were l33t enough she would have him convinced he should propose, and he wouldn't realise until he is walking down the isle that he was neatly maneuvered into place!