The Church speaks out in the media

[Xenocrates]

I don’t despise the church and I am certainly not seeking to detract from it...

- That's odd, I don't remember anyone quoting anything you said... ...never-the-less;

However, I personally think the church can do more and is not doing enough, an organization such a Red Cross is only as big as the church body world wide and yet still whenever there is a disaster the Red Cross get mobilize and help people.

- My friend, before you make such remarks, you need to do a thorough investigation of what each church community in Jamaica is involved in. You will find that there are DOZENS of outreach activities not only catering to the spiritual but also the physiological needs of the sorrounding community. My congregation has so many of them that you need to get a handbook so that you can pick one to be apart of! Maybe your church community or the ones you are familiar with aren't doing enough in your opinion. But let me assure you, the church is VERY much out there. Just because you don't see it in your community, it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. Open your eyes my friend.

In Jamaica whenever there is a disaster people don’t turn to the church for assistance they turn to the Member of Parliament, the church have shirk there responsibility all in the name of hoarding money and building big church.

- People turn to a member of Parliament because they have access to financial resources that an average church congregation does not. If we lived in a theocratic government, you wouldn't be making this observation. But that is neither here nor there. Over 70% of the relief resources are owned by the Government. Furthermore, how can you forget the dozens of churches which fall in to become relief shelters during times of disaster? That is a terribly unfair observation my friend. It's not only Schools and Public Buildings that double as relief shelters. Open your eyes.

I long for a day when I can see a church that is active, mobilize and have the energy that they have challenging the “Charter of Rights”.

- If every humanitarian effort by the church in Jamaica was as publicised as the challenge to the Charter of Rights, you would not have made this observation. You shouldn't be blaming the church here. You should be blaming the media for:

1. Only sensationalizing when Deacons/Pastors rape girls
2. Ignoring the thousands of relief and humanitarian initiatives performed each year.

You rely too much on the media to paint a picture of the church for you my friend.

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[Xenocrates]

The church should be the champion against state terrorism, state brutality,

- Blame the media! I've seen churches RAID innercity communities and break up gangs. I've personally been apart of church initiatives to covert community dons and gunmen. I've seen gunmen come weeping to street meetings, handing over their weapons to police in the process. Have you? Ofcourse not. Stuff like that is not news worthy. It doesn't sell papers or increase prime time ratings for advertisement slots.

they should stand up and let criminals know that we are united and we will give you up if you refuse to turn over the guns (and don’t tell me these church people don’t know the criminals, most churches are found in ghettos or near ghettos and the mother and sisters are sometimes members)

- This sounds like a problem that is prevalent in the churches you frequent (I've seen you post about it often). If that be the case brother, maybe you guys need some help from other church communities. Have you ever thought about that? Why don't you suggest it to your pastor? Our congregation affiliates itself with DOZENS of churches islandwide to exact relief efforts and to organise outreach programmes! Does your church do that? Just because the few congregations you know aren't functioning as you think they should, it doesn't mean that ALL church congregations are non functional. Try to be just in your observation please. I strongly suggest that you ask your elders to think about alligning yourselves with other church communities to get such efforts accomplished. You'd be surprised at how much can be done when collaborations of this sort are effected!

the church need to stop arguing about when is the Sabbath, who is going to hell, which church is better who have more members and who have the bigger church.

- I AGREE 100% Waste-of-time argument those. In fact, anyone who calls themself a christian who provokes such debate should go back and read 1 Corinthians 12 & 13. I agree with you brother.

You know Xeno I have a Pastor and a Deacon with whom I have these discussion and they don’t come off as arrogant as you sound

- We wouldn't state our opinion if we weren't arrogant enough to think that it is worth saying in the first place. However, there's a big difference in being confident in one's opinion as opposed to being arrogant in the context for which you imply. Arrogant suggests that I'm not teachable. If you knew me in person, you would think very differently about that. I'll let this one slide.

...people have real concern about the church in the public, their motive, their involvement and where they are going.

- People who are actively INVOLVED in the church don't share that opinion. That's my point. None of the critics of the church in Jamaica are anything more than Sunday/Saturday visitors at best. They have never been involved in any kind of outreach ministry of any kind. Have you?

It’s not for believers to shun them and call them hypocrites but to try and understand why they think so.

- Been there. Done that. I've yet to see a genuine counter positive. I would prefer this type of criticism to be leveled by someone who is intimately involved with what the church is doing in Jamaica. I agree that some congregations are woefully inactive in service of their community, but I STRONGLY disagree that "The Church", the collective body of Christ, is inactive, or insufficiently active in Jamaica. That's a grossly inaccurate accusation, and I won't stand for it sir.

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[Xenocrates]

The only people living in Jamaica that believe that the church is doing enough are those people who have the ‘shade of Christianity’ drawn over their eyes, they are so caught up in their belief that they forgot their cause.

- That's a presumptious statement. I agree that there are some pharisees in the church movement, but these people don't make up the collective body of the church. This kind of remark reminds me of the kind of opinion that some people hold, that just because a deacon raped a girl, they avoid churches altogether. It is an incredibly ridiculous remark, because no matter how many times people get stabbed, or fights break out, or bottles are thrown at Dancehall sessions, these people STILL show up to them religiously. In fact, I could be just as presumptious, and state that all dancehall artistes and their fans are animalistic hooligans, just because I've only seen a few of them.

Now I'm not a dancehall fan, so I'm automatically unqualified to level any criticism at the dancehall scene. Likewise, if you're not actively involved in the church, or have never had inter-cogregational fellowship, you would be grossly unqualified to level any such criticism at the church.

I recommend:

Petition the media houses to highlight the positives that are going on in your country via the church. In the highly improbable event that they listen, you will get are far more accurate representation of the church community in Jamaica. Heck, at our congregation, we even have outreach ministries to poor countries like Honduras, Guyana and many others. We have missionaries coming in from the States, recruiting people to go on missionaries to some of the darkest communities in Jamaica. How could we be so wicked such as to say that the church is not doing enough?

We live in a world where people only notice evil - not goodness. Evil is always more sensational to report, because by nature, we are evil people and evil people delight in hearing about evil things. Instead of labelling the church as being inactive, accuse the MEDIA for ignoring the good that the church is doing! Think about that before you criticize the church again my brother.

[Fin]

[Justice]

I can’t bother responding to all your points; I don’t have the time for it. But we have been down this road in other threads and until I see the changes I will hold my views, I guess I can say the same for you. Maybe you should direct me to your church so I can see the light and change my views?

By the way I found this very funny:

- If you knew me in person, you would think very differently about that. I'll let this one slide.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

However, I personally think the church can do more and is not doing enough, an organization such a Red Cross is only as big as the church body world wide and yet still whenever there is a disaster the Red Cross get mobilize and help people.

I long for a day when I can see a church that is active, mobilize and have the energy that they have challenging the “Charter of Rights”.

West Indies Conference of Seventh Day Adventist provide assistance for 80 families
Over 80 families from southern St. Elizabeth, who were devastated by the passage of Hurricane Ivan, have received assistance from the staff of the West Indies Conference of Seventh Day Adventists.

The members operating under the banner of Adventists Disaster Relief Agency (ADRA), recently undertook the task of restoring temporary roofing to two houses, as well as, the distribution of packages of emergency food and supplies to needy individuals from the communities of Banton Town, Lover's Leap and Yardley Chase.

The Agency's assistance will be executed in a phased programme, the first of which will focus on the provision of items for physical comfort and temporary solutions such as tarpaulins for roofs, food and shelter. In the second phase, areas will be revisited and provided with seeds and other planting material so as to assist families and communities with the production of food.

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THE ROLLINGTON Town Seventh-day Adventist Church is hosting free health screening exercises, running from July 15-26 as part of its 75th anniversary celebrations.

The Adventist administration has invited a team of 18 students from Walla, Walla College in Washington, U.S.A. to administer free medical services. Exercises will include blood pressure checks, eye, dental and other treatments, from their base at the Vineyard Town Golden Age Home off Dineary Road in Kingston.

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"I am very happy now," says Gloria Grant for whom Courtney is one of nine grandchildren. "Before, I was just very sad that we would not be able to afford it. Now that the surgery is completed, it is costing a little, but the same God that help us to reach this stage will help us to finish. Thanks to God, RBTT, GraceKennedy, Jamaica National, the Seventh-day Adventist Church and a few other places, we have come this far. A whole lot of Jamaicans sent in what they had."

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From November 3 to 30, the Andrews Memorial Seventh Day Adventist Church targeted Andrews Pen, St. Andrew, as the community to erect a tent over a four-week period. But before going into the community, the assembly organised themselves to meet the physical needs of the community.

Explaining that the methods of crusading have had to change with time, Elder Noel Jumpp, the preacher for the recently concluded SDA crusade in Andrews Pen, says that there are many persons working in the effort. "There are teams from the church that are organised into departments. There is a department for family life, health and temperance, and young people's team which is known as Adventist Youth (AY)," he said, adding that each department would spearhead the programme and would be ministering.

Having preached at a number of crusades since 1994, Elder Jumpp says that tent crusades have had a positive impact on communities. He says the church has to be able to work with members of the community and to "try to meet them where they are."

Prior to hosting the tent crusade, members of the Andrews Memorial SDA visited the community and held outreach programmes with two health clinics. The medical and dental clinics, he points out, were manned by health professionals and friends of the Andrews Memorial SDA Church. The objective, Elder Jumpp notes, is to "reach humanity for Jesus - not only in preaching the gospel but we went into the youth club to make it stronger by interfacing with the young men."

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[Justice]

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Happy to see the media doing its work, no wonder I depend on them for my information and especially happy to see the church helping people. In any event, I never said the church wasn’t doing anything; all I said was that there is more the church could do and only a blind person would believe that the church is doing enough.

In any event BCK keep up the good work , you may touch somebody’s heart one day.

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Church speaking out against crime and violence.

PRESIDENT OF the West Indies Union of Seventh-day Adventist Churches, Dr. Patrick Allen, has expressed deep concern over the state of crime and violence taking place in the island.

He was speaking at the official opening ceremony of the North Jamaica Mission Headquarters of the Seventh-day Adventist Church at Drax Hall, St. Ann recently.

Dr. Allen said that too much crime and blood-letting was taking place and called on church members and other persons of goodwill to use spiritual means as the way to put an end to these ungodly acts.

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[Twinkie]

Hey I know what religion certain folks are...heh hehe

[BlackCryptoKnight]

Clergy calls for forgiveness to be a part of crime plan:

ON SUNDAY, the Honourable Dr. Peter Phillips, the Minister of National Security, in a national broadcast reviewed the Crime Plan while on Sunday coming the Mead-Haven Ministers' Fraternal will host a Forgiveness Service at the Boulevard Baptist Church. What does a review of the Crime Plan and a forgiveness service have in common? The answer is that the Crime Plan calls for and needs an integrated approach. There is a place for strong policing, special squads, better intelligence, better-trained staff, community policing and community relations. However, there is room for social engineering and the effort of the Fraternal with its forgiveness campaign falls into that category. This strategy could have an impact on the Crime Plan.

On Ash Wednesday of this year, this fraternal that ministers in the greater Meadowbrook and Havendale areas and whose ministry impacts and is also affected by trouble spots of Maverley, 100 Lane, Park Lane, Black Ants Lane etc designed a programme of forgiveness to impact the crime rate and aid national development. It was observed, based on an analysis of the 2002 murder figures, that the major motivation for murders according to the police was revenge followed by domestic murders. The Fraternal felt that part of the strategy for fighting crime must and ought to involve a call to citizens who are seeking revenge or who will seek revenge in the near future to forgive.

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[BlackCryptoKnight]

Baptist Minister calls for spiritual revival in the nation.

"IF I were to die now and go to Heaven, I would greet Jesus and say thanks for saving me, but I can't come here without seeing a revival," so says the Rev. Everard Allen, pastor of the Brown's Town Circuit of Baptist churches.

"From what I have read in Scripture and what has happened through history, I have to see a revival in my country. And if I see that, I will be able to say like Simeon (Luke 2:29-31) 'Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation ...' the renowned clergyman said.

The Rev. Mr. Allen, 58, who is widely respected for his skills at expository preaching and his passionate oratory, has been the pastor of the four-church (Brown's Town, Mt. Olivet, Lime Tree Gardens, St. John's) Brown's Town Baptist Circuit since 1972.

He said "The dream of my life, from head to toe, is spiritual awakening * spiritual revival, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit which revolutionises churches, individuals and which changes the whole moral fibre of nations."

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