Belief is Moot

[Manu]

I too believe in creation, but could you explain the logical basis on which your belief stands. Even your existence is uncertain. You assume you exist because your mortal mind tells you that you do.

It is not logical that this world came from a single molecule. I don't care about the timeline. People say that most things are similar hence the phylogeny but I believe they are similar because they were created by the same person.

It does get convoluted when the whole Adam and Eve thing comes about...
Maybe man couldn't comprehend at the time that the world existed millions of years before he came about so he said that God created it in 6. Remember, for thousands of years... people said the earth was flat and the sun revolved around us....

[silentburn]

I too believe in creation, but could you explain the logical basis on which your belief stands. Even your existence is uncertain. You assume you exist because your mortal mind tells you that you do.

Lets be practical, we are alive and kicking; our little slice of reality is not a simulation, its real.

We are obviously here on purpose, this didn't just happen. You know what, I don't even believe that the earth took billions of years to become inhabitable. Whatever happened that made this place habitable happened shortly before we came on the scene. A few thousand years at the most, humans have definitely not been here more than a few thousand years.

Put all that aside though, the point that most of us seem to agree on is that we had to be created and that an environment was prepared for us beforehand to ensure our continued existence.

It doesn't even get convoluted with Adam and Eve, that's pretty straight forward. All it takes is one man and one woman to populate this earth.

Where it gets cloudy is when we reach the question of ''why the heck are we here and what's the next big thing that's going to happen?''

It is at this point that views begin to diverge significantly.

[ramesh]

Lets be practical, we are alive and kicking; our little slice of reality is not a simulation, its real.

Are you sure of that or do you believe what your senses tell you as fact? Even that could be simulated (see my last post).

We are obviously here on purpose, this didn't just happen.

Please quote proof. Or is this just a 'belief'?

You know what, I don't even believe that the earth took billions of years to become inhabitable. Whatever happened that made this place habitable happened shortly before we came on the scene. A few thousand years at the most, humans have definitely not been here more than a few thousand years.

So all the evidence dug up is wrong? What basis do you have for this? Or is this another 'belief'?

Put all that aside though, the point that most of us seem to agree on is that we had to be created and that an environment was prepared for us beforehand to ensure our continued existence.

You mean the people who moved from Africa to Europe had a perfect environment for survival? Then why did they move?

It doesn't even get convoluted with Adam and Eve, that's pretty straight forward. All it takes is one man and one woman to populate this earth.

So all their children performed incest? Doesn't sound so straightforward to me. There are scientific reasons for not bearing children from close relatives.

Where it gets cloudy is when we reach the question of ''why the heck are we here and what's the next big thing that's going to happen?''

For scientists, it's quite simple. We are here through a natural progression of events that took place over many billions of years. There is much scientific evidence of this.

It is at this point that views begin to diverge significantly.

I 'believe' it was a long time before that.

[silentburn]

Are you sure of that or do you believe what your senses tell you as fact? Even that could be simulated (see my last post).

Well until you can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that life is simulated then I will continue to believe that my life is a reality.

Please quote proof. Or is this just a 'belief'?

Can you prove otherwise ?

So all the evidence dug up is wrong? What basis do you have for this? Or is this another 'belief'?

Yup, some of the information is fabricated. Especially the data about pre historic man. Google it. I don't believe everything I am taught at school, do you?

You mean the people who moved from Africa to Europe had a perfect environment for survival? Then why did they move?

Oh I was referring to the earth in general. The earth had to be here before humans came into existence. Do you disagree?

So all their children performed incest? Doesn't sound so straightforward to me. There are scientific reasons for not bearing children from close relatives.

Yea, something like that.

For scientists, it's quite simple. We are here through a natural progression of events that took place over many billions of years. There is much scientific evidence of this.

Ramesh, you really believe that? Please explain the theory. How did the universe come about by the splitting of one single particle? Where did the particle/atom (whatever you want to call it) come from?

[ramesh]

Yup, some of the information is fabricated. Especially the data about pre historic man. Google it. I don't believe everything I am taught at school, do you?

All data has to be checked and verified by independent scientists before any theory or evidence is taken as fact. Have you ever seen scientific journals? Every item of information is dissected and argued until the truth is irrevocable.

Oh I was referring to the earth in general. The earth had to be here before humans came into existence. Do you disagree?

Obviously! It was here for billions of years, until the right environment existed for life to evolve and become what it is now.

Ramesh, you really believe that? Please explain the theory. How did the universe come about by the splitting of one single particle? Where did the particle/atom (whatever you want to call it) come from?

Who said it all came from one particle/atom? Please get your facts straight. Please quote sources.

[silentburn]

All data has to be checked and verified by independent scientists before any theory or evidence is taken as fact. Have you ever seen scientific journals? Every item of information is dissected and argued until the truth is irrevocable.

They find one thigh bone or one skull and then they label it as the bridge between apes and man? Ramesh, they still have not found the evasive link of where ape becomes man. Most of the bones they have discovered are of apes, not of pre-historic man.

Obviously! It was here for billions of years, until the right environment existed for life to evolve and become what it is now.

Everything has come together too perfectly for this to happen by chance.

Who said it all came from one particle/atom? Please get your facts straight. Please quote sources.

Isn't the theory that the universe evolved from an infinitely dense atomic particle widely accepted?

This is how the general theory usually begins.

Approximately 13.7 billion years ago, the entirety of our universe was compressed into the confines of an atomic nucleus. Known as a singularity, this is the moment before creation when space and time did not exist. According to the prevailing cosmological models that explain our universe, an ineffable explosion, trillions of degrees in temperature on any measurement scale, that was infinitely dense, created not only fundamental subatomic particles and thus matter and energy but space and time itself. Cosmology theorists combined with the observations of their astronomy colleagues have been able to reconstruct the primordial chronology of events known as the big bang.

Taken from here. http://ssscott.tripod.com/BigBang.html

Put all the semantics aside though, what came before the big bang?
Better yet, suppose what you believe is not true Ramesh? What will you believe?

[Manu]

If what we believe is not true... what are the consequences of that? I for one don't mind. I'm open to learning so if what I perceive as reality is indeed a fallacy then no problem. I will be disappointed but I won't lose sleep over it.

[Nika_869]

Xeno rolls through, makes his comment. Somebody resurrects it, have yet to see Xeno reappear to give his input. Wow.

[silentburn]

I still can't fathom infinite time.

Xeno rolls through, makes his comment. Somebody resurrects it, have yet to see Xeno reappear to give his input. Wow.

Loss of interest I guess. This isn't the first thread of its kind, there have been dozens. A lot of the topics have been respectably exhausted.

[ramesh]

I still can't fathom infinite time.

Xeno is busy with his own Blog. I doubt he has time for us mere mortals.

Infinite time is like infinite space, no end and no beginning, always was and always will be (I'm beginning to sound like Dido's 'White Flag'!!).

Anyway, speaking about infinite time and space, scientists has formulated a theory (which is being debated but is gathering more supporters while the evidence mounts) that the this Universe is a part of many Universes all bouncing around on 11 Dimensions, and that the points at which the Dimensions intersect are the births of Universes in their own Big Bang. So there may be multiple Big Bangs going on right now, it's just that they are invisible to us.